Help formulating for translucency

[newbie]

For your oils, you can either weigh out two separate batches, or weigh out one batch of 27 ounces and then split off 9 ounces and 18 ounces into separate bowls. I prefer to measure out one batch of oils, then split it.

Do your oils whichever way and then set the bowls on the counter separated from each other, so you don't end up with confusion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think, in the long run, it's much easier to do the lye waters separately. Your entire batch needs 107 grams of lye but your scale goes to just one gram and not halves, so I would take the liberty of increasing your SF very slightly and going with 105 grams of lye. We are splitting it into 2/3 and 1/3 so that will be 70 grams for one and 35 grams for the other.

You want more translucency, which would be the high water, so that will be calculated for the 70 gm of lye.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So for the high water part, the ratio of water to lye is 2.4:1. We need 168 gms of water and 70 grams of lye. I got this number because we need 2.4 times as much water as we have lye and 2.4 x 70 = 168.

168:70 is equal to 2.4:1. Some people like to work in the percentage of lye to water and this is 29%, for anyone following who wants to stick that number in a soap calculator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the low water part, the ratio of water to lye is 1.4:1. We need 49 grams of water and 35 grams of lye. I got this number because we need 1.4 times as much water as we have lye and 1.4 x 35 = 49.

49:35 is equal to 1.4:1. For the percentage, this comes out to 41.6% so you can put 41% or 42% in a lye calculator.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Put the bigger amount of lye water by the larger amount of oils and the smaller amount of lye water by the bowl with less oil. Sounds obvious but it's easy to get confused with multiples. It never hurts to label things.

Make sure you are using a very well-behaving FO or EO. I always make the low water batch (the smaller of the two in this case) first because it can take more time to get it to light trace. Once I'm there, I do the high water batch because it's easier to SB to about the same place as the low water in a shorter amount of time. Make sure you account for splitting and coloring of course.

So high water combo will be 18 ounces of oils with 238 gms total of lye water.

Low water combo will be 9 ounces of oils with 84 gms total of lye water.

If I lost you somewhere, let me know and I'll try to clarify.

 

[DeeAnna]

DeeAnna, what made you (a person with math ability!) decide to do it that way?...

Uh, just cuz. Sorry to sound flip -- it just seemed like an okay thing to do at the time. I didn't have much more of a reason than that. Even geeks have silly whims, now and then. :mrgreen:

...Did you try to match the temp of the added water with the temp of the batter?

No, I didn't. At that time of year, my distilled water would have been 65 to 70 F. But that's no different than adding the water at the beginning to make the low-water version -- I used the same water for all.

 

[lenarenee]

For your oils, you can either weigh out two separate batches, or weigh out one batch of 27 ounces and then split off 9 ounces and 18 ounces into separate bowls. I prefer to measure out one batch of oils, then split it.

Do your oils whichever way and then set the bowls on the counter separated from each other, so you don't end up with confusion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think, in the long run, it's much easier to do the lye waters separately. Your entire batch needs 107 grams of lye but your scale goes to just one gram and not halves, so I would take the liberty of increasing your SF very slightly and going with 105 grams of lye. We are splitting it into 2/3 and 1/3 so that will be 70 grams for one and 35 grams for the other.

You want more translucency, which would be the high water, so that will be calculated for the 70 gm of lye.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So for the high water part, the ratio of water to lye is 2.4:1. We need 168 gms of water and 70 grams of lye. I got this number because we need 2.4 times as much water as we have lye and 2.4 x 70 = 168.

168:70 is equal to 2.4:1. Some people like to work in the percentage of lye to water and this is 29%, for anyone following who wants to stick that number in a soap calculator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the low water part, the ratio of water to lye is 1.4:1. We need 49 grams of water and 35 grams of lye. I got this number because we need 1.4 times as much water as we have lye and 1.4 x 35 = 49.

49:35 is equal to 1.4:1. For the percentage, this comes out to 41.6% so you can put 41% or 42% in a lye calculator.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Put the bigger amount of lye water by the larger amount of oils and the smaller amount of lye water by the bowl with less oil. Sounds obvious but it's easy to get confused with multiples. It never hurts to label things.

Make sure you are using a very well-behaving FO or EO. I always make the low water batch (the smaller of the two in this case) first because it can take more time to get it to light trace. Once I'm there, I do the high water batch because it's easier to SB to about the same place as the low water in a shorter amount of time. Make sure you account for splitting and coloring of course.

So high water combo will be 18 ounces of oils with 238 gms total of lye water.

Low water combo will be 9 ounces of oils with 84 gms total of lye water.

If I lost you somewhere, let me know and I'll try to clarify.

Newbie you make perfect sense! I read Auntie Clara's blog 3 times and couldn't get it.

I'm not adverse to fudging the numbers a little to round up/down. I actually calculated my sf to have that kind of wriggle room.

One question though - for 2 different water concentrations - why not a 50% lye and 25% lye? Where did the exact ratio of 1.4:1 and 2.4:1 come from?

(The true test of understanding will come when I get a chance to make the soap - maybe tomorrow if our houseguests goes out for the day)

 

[lenarenee]

Uh, just cuz. Sorry to sound flip -- it just seemed like an okay thing to do at the time. I didn't have much more of a reason than that. Even geeks have silly whims, now and then. :mrgreen:



No, I didn't. At that time of year, my distilled water would have been 65 to 70 F. But that's no different than adding the water at the beginning to make the low-water version -- I used the same water for all.

Didn't sound flippant at all! In fact it's a relief to know that the amount of expertise you have, you (or any other highly knowledgeable person) are comfortable taking the "easy" route. Perhaps that knowledge is what makes the "easy" route a good pick - it told you there was no big reason why it shouldn't work?

 

[newbie]

I have zero idea where those ratios came from. Maybe out of Auntie Clara's a@@?

To get different gels, one would have to have substantially different water amounts. For safety, I would not use a 1:1 lye ratio just in case there were a few crystals that didn't dissolve. It's possible the 1.4:1 ratio came from adding just enough extra water that you didn't have to worry about lye not fully dissolving. The 2.4:1 is very close to what lye calculators consider "full water" which I think is set at a 28% lye solution. Or someone decided the 1.4 and 2.4 looked good together and were easy to remember.

 

[lenarenee]

I have zero idea where those ratios came from. Maybe out of Auntie Clara's a@@?

To get different gels, one would have to have substantially different water amounts. For safety, I would not use a 1:1 lye ratio just in case there were a few crystals that didn't dissolve. It's possible the 1.4:1 ratio came from adding just enough extra water that you didn't have to worry about lye not fully dissolving. The 2.4:1 is very close to what lye calculators consider "full water" which I think is set at a 28% lye solution. Or someone decided the 1.4 and 2.4 looked good together and were easy to remember.

Okay, then other than the 1:1, the exact ratios don't have to be set in stone.

Well now I'm really excited and can't wait to try this! Think the first one will be unscented but colored The only ghost swirl I've done was uncolored so I can't visual how that will change the look.

Thank you so much Newbie! I'll let you know when I've got pictures!

 

[newbie]

No problem! I love the effects from this technique so I can't wait to see what you decide to do with it. You'd better post pics, miss!

 

[DeeAnna]

The two ratios Auntie Clara used are about 40% and about 30% lye concentration. I'd say those nice even numbers are one reason why Auntie Clara chose these two concentrations.

At 30% or less, soap gels pretty easily. When the lye concentration is 33% and higher, soap generally doesn't gel. There's a gray area between 30% and 33% where the results are mixed, at least in my experience. The soap tends to gel in this range of lye concentration, but not reliably.

So I'd choose one concentration at 30% or less and the second at 33% or more. Another thing to consider -- I think a fairly large difference in lye concentration might cause a more obvious "halo effect" that some of her soap experiments show.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

Inspired by this pic: http://www.soapblog.nl/english/?p=258 I want to experiment in making a more translucent soap - or at least a less opaque soap than an ungelled 65% lard recipe.

Which combo of oils do you think would be best?

From time to time I make transparent soap. The trick to that is to add ingredients, essentially solvents, that make the soap crystals very, very small. That allows light to penetrate the soap.

I do that, of course, on purpose. Sometimes I've done CP soap that is more translucent than usual, but by accident. This is about as translucent as it's gotten:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=584371&postcount=31

I'm certain it's possible to connect the dots between the two. A more translucent soap would have a finer crystal structure and allow more light penetration than opaque soap. The same substances that contribute to transparency can create more translucent CP.

The CP recipe shown above had a high amount of lauric oil -- a combination of CO, PKO and babassu. A high-CO or high-lauric soap should have a higher concentration of glycerin, and glycerin is one of the things that produces smaller soap crystals. Another characteristic of the recipe is a somewhat high amount of castor oil. Castor also acts as a solvent and can help, for instance, with the clarity of liquid and transparent soap.

The basic recipe on the site you referenced is 30% CO and 5% castor. That might be a good basis for developing a translucent recipe. Mine went a bit overboard at 35% lauric and 7.5% castor and was exceptionally translucent. And keep the lye concentration down at 30% to get a proper gel.

It's also possible you could add ingredients to enhance the translucency. A little extra glycerin is a possibility. A little sugar is worth a try, as it also contributes to smaller soap crystals.

Sugar and glycerin are both used in transparent soapmaking, though not alone. There are YouTube videos that show how to make very translucent HP soap by adding a lot of extra glycerin and sugar. That takes it to an extreme and produces super translucent but rubbery soap. Not recommended, but it demonstrates the principle.

youtube.com/watch?v=tTQ_YU8aNWY

 

[lenarenee]

No problem! I love the effects from this technique so I can't wait to see what you decide to do with it. You'd better post pics, miss!

It's almost 2 in the afternoon and the guests just left (does it really take 2 hours to prepare for a waterpark?)

I'm going out for dinner and movie at 4, so no soap making for me today. Although I may just measure out some oils...

 

[newbie]

I've found 100% CO bars are about the most translucent of all the soap I've ever made.

 

[lenarenee]

Soaping has been put off...again. I've had this pot of oils sitting around for 4 days, and since its a metal pot I wonder if I should pitch it for fear of it having time to gather a lot of metal contaminants?

We've got a situation in our neighborhood and our house is the focal point of the this "battle" (not the subject, we're just front and center). Because a school is right across the street from our neighborhood and California doesn't bus students, all 940ish students are driven to campus. Car pool? What's that?

The result is 3 times a day we're subject not only to noise and disruption, but blocked driveways, mailboxes, garbage cans - which means no service, destruction of property, trampled lawns, strange unsupervised kids in our yards...and life threatening traffic issues. We have some vulnerable older people here - and more than once emergency vehicles could not get to their house!

There's been a community effort for years to get the city and school to make changes. Finally, a process has begun...however...well...both sides are angry. The threat of violence enough where I had to try to talk a neighbor down, only to be verbally attacked by him ever since. We'll have police present the rest of the week.

So lucky me, as a witness and participant I feel the need to write some letters. So incredibly glad our girl doesn't go to this school!