Hello evryone , from France !

[Emmanuel]

Welcome Emmanuel!
A very noble goal you have to soap with 70% locally grown oils! I've also had this thought about the footprint of all the exotic oils I use for hardness and bubbles, but didn't dare to go without them (yet). I'm very curious to see what you come up with!
One tip I can give you is that there are some threads (mainly by UK soapers) about rapeseed wax. That might be locally grown in France. (Though the thought also occurs to me, what's the environmental impact of the hydrogenation process?)
There are also some threads on hemp oil where a good lather is reported, maybe that's something you could look into?
Salt definitely helps with hardness and longevity but kills lather, so a high amount of salt is often offset by lots of coconut oil, which I guess is not what you want.. (unless if you open up a coconut plantation in the south of france)
A recipe I once used and quite liked (though still a bit slimy) was 92% olive oil, 3% beeswax and 5% castor (though I guess castor is not an option for you), white wine for full liquid and a pinch of salt added.

Happy soaping!

Hello !

To be totally honest, rapeseed wax seems to be an excellent idea but a bad moove in terms of marketing : hydrogenated oil have very bad press even though totally hydrogenated oil is considered non toxic (it's only when the hydrogenation is not well made) but when you see the load of people that talk bad about product without having the knowledge about it ... But I will try that ! I have some lying around .
I will also try hemp oil , but my effort concentrate around olive oil and grapeseed oil wich seems to help with lather. I'm making things difficult but I really want to make something different of other soapmaker in my region in order to succeed

EDIT : know that I think about it... It could be possible to produce a semi hard oil using only rapeseed oil by adjusting the hydrogenation level. It could create soap 100% made from very local oil (like around 250km) . I saw hydrogenation unit... hummm I will think about it ^^

 

[SeaSuds]

You might find this thread a good read: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/behenic-c22-and-arachidic-c20-fatty-acids-in-soap.75948/

It also has a link to a German soap calculator (Seifenrechner By Katrin) which may have a more accurate value for European rapeseed.

 

[Orla]

Hi Emmanuel, I am a bit on your wavelength.
As you know, there's a big thing now in France on trying to get Rapeseed wax and Soya wax that are made in Europe and non-GMO.
L'attitude nature advertises a European non-GMO soya wax. Greenweez sells a French soya wax but only in a tiny quantity - but that means that it exists.
I too have been trying to track down French origin materials - though I'm only a hobby soaper!
By the way, could I ask you how you have been getting Titanium dioxyde? Maybe you haven't. Illegal since January 2020 here in foodstuffs and other stuff too. So the thing is (for me) it has to be no-nanoparticules.
I still haven't found out how to buy it made-in-France. Aroma-zone sells it without nanoparticles but it's pre-dissolved in castor oil with no indication of strength. Maddening. I went with Fleurs d'arôme who are in Belgium
As you can see, I'm very amateur (a lockdown generation soaper), but I am vegetarian, all organic and also killing myself to buy local!
Typically, I started out with fruit, herbs etc. for colorants. I got a very vibrant orange from paprika (2nd batch in my life) which has absolutely held. I was thrilled skinny by the colours in my first batch, but hélas, they have faded. It's still a lovely soap though! bubbly and gentle!

 

[Orla]

Sorry, reading through the messages: why did castor oil get ruled out? That's easy to come by in France, made in France and organic... It's the most famous lathering oil I would have thought? Even if I have some "not beyond 7%" rule in my head... I was also on the lathering issue. Thanks to Irish Lass, I'm going to up my sugar (it's organic, but as people have pointed out, you can get sugar in there in various ways...)

 

[szaza]

I think I was the one specifically ruling out castor.. I actually didn't know it was sustainably produced in France (which is really good to know, thank you!)
Most castor oil is produced outside of Europe. The castor beans also contain ricin, a very potent toxin that is separated from the oil and in some places with poor manufacturing ethics it isn't always discarded in a safe way, harming the surrounding nature and communities.

 

[Orla]

My apologies Szaza, you are quite right. You can see "huile de ricin" on loads of French sites with "fabrication française" but I looked more carefully and I am sorry, my error, it is of course sourced from outside of Europe, so that's a bit of a "fabrication" the "fabrication française" bit!
Szaza, I'm desperately avoiding amazon and whatever, do you use Fleurs d'arôme? I got my micas from them and they are VERY fast and seem very nice, it's just that the website is ridiculously poor on information. And for some reason, all of the feedback seems similarly unhelpful: "je recommande" or "très satisfait"... I find it difficult to understand why so many customers would have nothing more useful to say than "je recommande" or even (a popular one) "bien reçu"!!??!! I think Emmanuel will have to get Soya wax, or maybe start cultivating it himself!!! there seems to be a big demand for organic soya wax - I've seen a few companies (the organic products ones) prefacing their presentation with "oh, it was very difficult, but we finally managed to find non-OGM European soya wax"... so, once again, my apologies

 

[szaza]

Well apparently the plant is originally from the Mediterranean, so it's not a stretch to think it could be produced in France.
I haven't soaped with waxed (soy or rapeseed) but I'm looking for good sources. Fleurs d'arôme seems a bit expensive. I generally shop at dragonspice (in Germany), but they don't have either soy or rapeseed wax

 

[Orla]

Yes, hopefully Emmanuel will sideline into producing organic castor and soja !
Szaza - I discovered that you have to go to the candlemakers for the soja wax - I picked that up when one of them was complaining about the small quantities of soya wax at Aroma-Zone.
So latitudenature.com will sell you non-OGM soya wax produced in Europe in huge quantities very cheaply altogether!

 

[szaza]

I just read somewhere that soy wax needs (palm oil) additives to be able to burn. All the descriptions of soy wax say '100% vegetale' but I don't find '100% soya' anywhere, so I'm getting a bit suspicious

 

[Orla]

Thank you Szaza for the Germany company reference. If you look at the first page of L'attitude nature you'll see an interesting coup de gueule on getting rapeseed 100% pure without parrifin. They are currently testing a 100% pure rapeseed wax. As you will see, they are very, very upfront about the info... transparency is their thing
You will see the FDS document for the soya wax proving that it is 100%.
That coup de gueule on the first page will also confirm how right you are to be suspicious of the "100% vegetal" tags!

Also, before we hear from Emmanuel , I should correct another error:

"By the way, can I ask you how you have been getting Titanium dioxyde? Maybe you haven't. Illegal since January 2020 here in foodstuffs and other stuff too. So the thing is (for me) it has to be no-nanoparticules."

Huge gaffe on my part - I am sure Emmanuel would not go within a mile of it!
I have discovered that white kaolin clay will colour white - not the bright white of TD, but a nice off-white and that's fine by me! I will have to start experimenting with swatches. I have seen it suggested that if you add the kaolin to the lye you get a whiter white than if you add it to the oils or batter... but I don't yet know if that's nonsense or not.
Have a nice day everyone!

PS This site has very strict standards in terms of expletives (!!) but HOW ridiculous is it that it should be hard to get organic rapeseed in France! The countryside is just awash in fields of colza...
PPS I have just written to lattitudenature to make sure that this info is correct...

 

[Louise Taylor]

Bonjour. I am in France as well and have just started a small business. So far I only have 4 assessed recipes.
To get white you might try a little arrowroot and put the soap in the fridge so that it does not gel. You don’t need much and it has the advantage of helping to fix EOs too.
Have you joined the French soap group on FB. They have a lot of information in the files.

 

[Orla]

Thank you Louise. Which one would you recommend? I looked at ADNS but that seems to be professionals and I'd be more of a bumbling amateur...

 

[Louise Taylor]

Groupe des savonniers apprentis This group is for people starting g up in business but are at the start of the journey. There are some experienced soapers there as well.

 

[Louise Taylor]

Savons maison : plaisir et partage or this ne for those who make just for pleasure

 

[Orla]

I don't know if they'll let me in Louise, as I have no intention of setting up a business (I have enough on my hands with my own job - euphemism). It's actually a very-high-adrenalin-rush source of relaxation for me! I told them I wanted to buy from French sources - I don't know if that will pass muster with them. We'll see.
I'll try your arrowroot suggestion sometime. Not too soon though as when I started adding SL, sugar and citric acid - and although all three were very definitely dissolved 100% - I started getting less smooth bars. So it must be something reacting with something, and I haven't identified the culprit. I'm eliminating SL (with coconut milk as Irish Lass suggested it is actually superfluous), so if there's no change that will leave me with only two suspects on my list!!
EDIT: Thank you - I just saw your messages when I hit sent! Oh yes, I think savons maison: plaisir and partage is the one for me. THANK YOU!

 

[lsg]

Welcome to the forum.

 

[SeaSuds]

Livemoor in the UK sell both rapeseed wax and Eurosoy800 (neither of which have any additives) in small quantities at a good price but although their delivery in the UK is free, they do charge for overseas.

 

[Orla]

I just read somewhere that soy wax needs (palm oil) additives to be able to burn. All the descriptions of soy wax say '100% vegetale' but I don't find '100% soya' anywhere, so I'm getting a bit suspicious

Szaza, I got on to latitudenature.com on that question. They told me that they would verify and get back to me. This one is 100% soya wax - no additif whatever, they say:
https://www.latitudenature.com/prod...r-bougies-container-parfumees-ou-non-/120207/