Hello - and a lesson learned on lye water...

[Being Restored]

Hey everyone -
I am a beginner in soapmaking, only on my 5th batch of cold-process. I make soap when our supply is running low ( every 5-6 months ) so I keep notes with each batch. Yesterday, I was weighing out the lye, and I remember thinking... " was there this much of it last time?" Yup. 12 oz. This seemed a lot when looking at it. So when it was time to add it to the water container in the sink - as I was pouring slow and stiring ( waiting for it to turn clear...) the mix was turning a blue/grey color and started to boil and boil and boil. I had snow in the sink around the container to help cool it - I am thankful nothing broke or cracked. Every window and door now open - I had to evacuate from the kitchen due to the very strong fumes. Once things settled down, I had to think 1) what to do next - and 2) what went wrong?!
I looked online for what to do with botched lye water and having a septic system. (This was way more than a normal amount of lye water!) I found only a few ideas here and there. I may be the only person to have this happen to them out there, but I wanted to pass some things along. May my lesson learned help others.


Sometimes things like this happen. Don't panic. The lye water will eventually calm down and cool off. Open more windows and doors to help the fumes escape. Keep animals or kids away from the area. If it was mixed in a safe area to begin with, there is no harm in letting it just stay there for a while.

The other fats mixed in the other pan can just sit. Turn the heat off, and the fats will go back to their solidified state again - no big deal. Same with the other tools - just " hit pause."

Don't try to guess how much there is left of the lye water - start over once things calm down ( the next day?!) and reweigh the lye and the water as before. Use the correct lye!
I dispposed of the cooled mixture wearing thick rubber gloves - walking outside (carefully - goggles removed to see better) to a place far away from curious animals - and dumped it in a huge snowpile to dilute the stuff.

I looked again at my lye container. I knew the crystals were never "blue" before - the other times they were small and white .
I compared this new bottle and the other container I still had.
Both of the containers had "yellow" colors - both stated "Crystal Drain Opener". ( I thought the word crystal meant the small white stuff...) Both are sealed at Home Depot/ Lowes type stores, so you just can't open it up and look inside to check. ( well, maybe... check with the sales people)
The ALL- YELLOW label of Roebic brand clearly states 100% SODIUM HYDROXIDE at the top of the back side label.
The blue stuff of Zep commercial contains Sodium Hydroxide is hidden in the small print. It does not say 100% because it isn't.

I now know to either get the 100% Sodium Hydroxide brand only - or like other posters have advised to get it at an Ace store or online - the free shipping one sounds great ( 10 lbs from essential depot. )

I will shop for a commercial grade container at the restaurant supply store that can handle 'boilage' and yet be able to pour. No more clear "Pyrex" type glass for me! ( It and me were too stressed by the experience...)

Happy soaping!

 

[Chay]

Sounds like you had quite an experience. Welcome to the forum!

 

[soapbuddy]

Glad you figured it out before you mixed it with oils. Pyrex can crack with use. It's never a good idea to use it with lye. If you need lye, try the Lye Guy or AAA Chemicals.

 

[Microdot]

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Being Restored]

... update

Well, the saga continues. I am using Sandy Maine's recipe that calls for 12 oz of lye into 32 oz of water. I don't remember how it fit in the container the first time I did this recipe.
Today I found an old pan in the basement that was wider. ( My trip to the restaurant supply house gave me aluminum items that won't work with lye...)
I started again, and yup - evacuate! This "old pan" was aluminum and yielded yet again boilage, grey goo and incredible fumes galore.
Hubby - who thankfully is home today - took the boiling pan outside, and again, every window and door is open.
He said -" Let me do this! " Grabbing a 5 gallon bucket, he mixed up the weighed ingredients - outside- and low and behold - it looks normal and is cooling down as I write this. Oye- veh - what a day! :roll:

 

[jcandleattic]

Re: ... update

Well, the saga continues. I am using Sandy Maine's recipe that calls for 12 oz of lye into 32 oz of water. I don't remember how it fit in the container the first time I did this recipe.
Today I found an old pan in the basement that was wider. ( My trip to the restaurant supply house gave me aluminum items that won't work with lye...)
I started again, and yup - evacuate! This "old pan" was aluminum and yielded yet again boilage, grey goo and incredible fumes galore.
Hubby - who thankfully is home today - took the boiling pan outside, and again, every window and door is open.
He said -" Let me do this! " Grabbing a 5 gallon bucket, he mixed up the weighed ingredients - outside- and low and behold - it looks normal and is cooling down as I write this. Oye- veh - what a day! :roll:

Keep on truckin' - You'll get it.
It also sounds like you might be adding the lye to the water too quickly. I try to do it slowly while stirring. I use room temp water when I use water (sometimes I use milk or most recently beer, that is frozen) Also, I have a mask, so I don't smell the fumes - but I do mix it under an open kitchen window as well...
Good luck!

 

[soapbuddy]

I would throw that aluminum pan away. It's etched/reacted by lye and pretty useless.

 

[Being Restored]

... out it goes, for sure!
I do like the 5 gallon bucket that hubby used.
What do other people use to mix the lye and water in?
Do others use aprox. the same amount of 12oz lye to 32oz water?

 

[agriffin]

I usually do 2 times my lye. So if a recipe calls for 12 oz of lye I would use 24 oz of water.

I mix my lye water in plastic pitchers or plastic paint mixing containers you can find in the paint section at home depot.

See here for examples.

http://www.lovinsoap.com/?p=999

 

[madpiano]

hello and wellcome here!!

Did you run your recipe through a lye calculator? Soap recipes from books and online are notoriously wrong!! Especially the ones that work with a standard lye container size!

 

[BakingNana]

Welcome! Thanks for sharing your adventures. To mix lye I use a $2 #5 plastic pitcher from K-Mart or Walmart or one of those kinds of stores. I bought a bunch of them so I can make a lot of 50% solution at one time.

 

[Being Restored]

... no, I have not run it through a 'lye calculator' - I think I have read about those, but do not understand how to use one, or why you would need to use one.
Do you use this because of the differences in kinds of lye that can be purchased - or why?
I have only used two soap recipes - my first (small one pound ) batches out of Anne Watson's "Smart Soapmaking" and the larger batches from Sandy Maine's book.
I have assumed - newbie that I am to all of this - that if they wrote a book on it, they must know a thing or two on how much lye to make thier soap. Also, I am a step -by- step person. I follow a recipe as it says, and don't venture out of the lines, so to speak. ( Thus, I bake better than I cook! )
Wow - thanks for all the input! I am learning lots.

 

[soapbuddy]

Always, always run any recipe through a lye calculator. Publishing mistakes do happen, whether in books or on the nest. Take your recipe and input it here as is> http://www.thesage.com/calcs/lyecalc2.php
You can adjust your water and the superfat there as well.

 

[Being Restored]

Thanks for the link - I tried it but ran into the "crisco"/ vegetable shortening problem of Maine's recipe - that I have no idea what ratios the oils are in to add to the calculator list.
( I had no idea this could be so complicated!)
Maybe I need to find a different recipe all together.... one without vegetable shortening.
I will save the calculator link for sure.

 

[soapbuddy]

Thanks for the link - I tried it but ran into the "crisco"/ vegetable shortening problem of Maine's recipe - that I have no idea what ratios the oils are in to add to the calculator list.
( I had no idea this could be so complicated!)
Maybe I need to find a different recipe all together.... one without vegetable shortening.
I will save the calculator link for sure.

Since the lye amount and water are listed in your book, input the shortening as soybean oil. See how close in lye and water amount the calculator comes to.

 

[Being Restored]

(... wow - flashback to high school chemistry class. Didn't do very well back then... too many charts and graphs to focus on!)
OK. Tried to imput what I knew. There were two spots for the coconut oil. I just picked one. ( Sounds like what I did back in high school too...)
I entered 'water' under the liquid as there wasn't a spot for an amount.
The lye amounts were listed ( ...what is excess fat range?) and 5 % would be 12.17oz of lye, and 8% would be 11.79oz. They recomended 22 - 32 oz of water for the lye.
(My mind is spinning trying to make sense of what the charts and percentages mean here. :shock: )
My guess is that the 12oz of lye in this recipe is "ok" and the 32oz of water is in the right range???? ( OK - I am officially lost/confused now ...)

 

[soapbuddy]

Excess fat range means superfat. You don't need to input the liquid as that will be calculated for you as a range. 22 - 32 oz of water just means that you can use this range whichever way you see fit. If you have a fragrance for example that accelerates trace, it safer to use the higher water amount. I normally do a 7% superfat, so that would be the amount that the calc chooses according to the recipe input.

 

[Being Restored]

Lots of variables, I see. (Still very confusing to me...)
So - one uses a lye calculator to double-check that what is listed in a recipe is the right amount ( or at least in the right range ), as well as it gives lots of other info as one gets bolder and experiments in soaping???
(... I would rather follow you into that area of "Off the recipe page and into the unknown" ... If anyone follows me -just follow the fumes~ :roll: )

 

[soapbuddy]

Lots of variables, I see. (Still very confusing to me...)
So - one uses a lye calculator to double-check that what is listed in a recipe is the right amount ( or at least in the right range ), as well as it gives lots of other info as one gets bolder and experiments in soaping???
(... I would rather follow you into that area of "Off the recipe page and into the unknown" ... If anyone follows me -just follow the fumes~ :roll: )

Yes. Anytime you get a recipe from anywhere, run it through a lye calc. If the end numbers there are the same, then you will be ok. Once you get comfortable with the process, start doing some experimentation with your own oils and butters. I'm sure that you will find a recipe that you write up yourself, much more likely to your liking.

 

[BakingNana]

Lots of variables, I see. (Still very confusing to me...)
So - one uses a lye calculator to double-check that what is listed in a recipe is the right amount ( or at least in the right range ), as well as it gives lots of other info as one gets bolder and experiments in soaping???
(... I would rather follow you into that area of "Off the recipe page and into the unknown" ... If anyone follows me -just follow the fumes~ :roll: )

:wink: Brings back memories....

I remember how overwhelming the feeling was at first, learning the properties of all the different oils -- saturated vs. unsaturated, and the different saponification values of various oils, which oils boost lather, and which add conditioning, etc. Just keep plugging away. Play around with the soap calculator to see what happens as you change the oils and the superfatting (also known as lye discount in some circles) percentage. As you run recipes through the calculator, watch the saturated fats to unsaturated fats ratio. Watch the lye amounts change as you change the superfatting percentage. Keep detailed notes on your batches. Note whether you liked the result of a particular recipe and what it's ratios and percentages were. You'll soon learn what you like and what is successful for you, and you'll have a benchmark to run from when starting to develop your own recipes or checking someone else's recipe. Have fun, and happy soaping!