Have a hard time getting paste to break down

[candicec003]

Hi all I've made liquid soap a handful of time with ok results. One recipe in particular i've had turn out quite well and its wonderful to use. The one constant with this particular recipe is that, after i've made the soap paste and add the water for dilution, let it sit over night, the paste is never fully dissolved. In fact its only about half dissolved. So its like a 2-3 day process because i have to heat it back up again and let it sit for another day, and usually after this second heating up, there's still a thick skin left on top. I have herd that recipes high in olive oil do take quite a bit of water for dilution but is it unrealistic to make a recipe with a high content of olive oil and wake up with a nice smooth liquid soap?? I've tried this recipe with 1x, 1.5x and 2x the weight of paste in distilled water but always seem to be left with a good amount of undissolved paste. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Ill list my recipe below

9oz Olive oil
1.5oz Castor oil
1.5oz Coconut oil

2.5oz KOH
7.5oz distilled water

Takes approx 4 hours to reach cooked, translucent paste.

 

[toxikon]

I've only made liquid soap once, but dilution went really smoothly for me actually.

I used IrishLass's method and put some paste into a wide-mouthed mason jar with enough room for lots of water. I used about 1 part paste to .60 part distilled water (so it'd be like 100g paste and 60g water). Sealed the jar, shook it up, and put it in a simmering pot of water.

I checked it after half an hour and gave it a poke with a fork to break it up, shake again, then place back in the pot.

Another 15 minutes later, I stuck my stickblender into the jar and pulsed a few times until the paste was completely dissolved. Then back in the simmering pot - now off the heat - for another few hours to allow the soap to become clear.

It ended up being the perfect consistency, thick like honey and clear. The foamy top disappeared after a few days.

 

[candicec003]

I use the crock pot method

 

[CTAnton]

Sounds to me like you couldn't go too wrong with gently warming it in a double boiler and stick blending to break up the remaining clumps...

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Are you using glycerin?

 

[candicec003]

No Im not

 

[HowieRoll]

I'm super lazy when it comes to dilution, and in the past have put paste (that is cold from being stored in the fridge) into a container, put water on top of it, and let it sit at room temp on the counter. It would usually take a couple days to dilute.

Then the other day I went to dilute more paste and as an experiment, I put the paste into the microwave for 30 seconds first (without water), then heated up the distilled water separately in the microwave, poured it over the paste, and wrapped it all up in a couple of towels. Before I went to bed I stirred it around and stabbed at it with a fork, then covered it up again. By morning it was mostly diluted. I say mostly because it needed a small splash of water to finish the job. It was the fastest lazy-way dilution I've had.

FYI, the recipe has 50% OO, 20% CO, 15% Almond Oil, and 15% Castor.

 

[Susie]

You may have over cooked your paste. Four hours is a really long time to cook soap, and over cooking leads to excessively hard/dry paste that is the dickens to dilute. You need not cook at all.

However, I am going to suggest you use the crock pot method to dilute this batch of paste. Just keep it on low and add water a little at the time, and stick blend when you get down to the last two small lumps. If you get a skin, add a little more water.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

...after this second heating up, there's still a thick skin left on top. ...I've tried this recipe with 1x, 1.5x and 2x the weight of paste in distilled water but always seem to be left with a good amount of undissolved paste.

The "thick skin" is an indication that there's not enough water to dilute the paste.

As a general rule of thumb:
LS paste with high % of coconut oil: 40% paste to 60% dilution water
LS paste with high % of olive oil: 15% paste to 85%% dilution water
All other oils/fats/combos fall somewhere in between.

15% : 85% for 100% olive oil results in thin LS but you will be amazed at how well it lathers.

With 75% olive oil in your recipe, I would try 20% paste /80% water. If it lathers well, but it's too thin, it can be thickened with salt i.e. brine solution. Here's a link to read about diluting castile paste:

https://www.brambleberry.com/Castile-Liquid-Soap-Paste-P4846.aspx

HTH

 

[candicec003]

You may have over cooked your paste. Four hours is a really long time to cook soap, and over cooking leads to excessively hard/dry paste that is the dickens to dilute. You need not cook at all.

However, I am going to suggest you use the crock pot method to dilute this batch of paste. Just keep it on low and add water a little at the time, and stick blend when you get down to the last two small lumps. If you get a skin, add a little more water.

I've been wondering about over cooking the paste, and if you can do that and what the repercussions are. Maybe i am over cooking it, in fact i think i may be. Sometimes i get very dark spots in the paste, the little bits on the sides accumulate and look burned. But honestly that's how long it takes to look fully translucent. Next time ill test the paste sooner. I've also been wondering about stick blending liquid soap after the dilution stage. Once i tried that and the end result was alot of bubbles, and the soap ended up separating in the end.

 

[toxikon]

I've been wondering about over cooking the paste, and if you can do that and what the repercussions are. Maybe i am over cooking it, in fact i think i may be. Sometimes i get very dark spots in the paste, the little bits on the sides accumulate and look burned. But honestly that's how long it takes to look fully translucent. Next time ill test the paste sooner. I've also been wondering about stick blending liquid soap after the dilution stage. Once i tried that and the end result was alot of bubbles, and the soap ended up separating in the end.

Check out IrishLass's liquid soapmaking technique, it's incredibly easy with no cooking required.

Post #8 on this thread: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46114

For my own personal reference, I summarized and simplified IL's steps as well:

IL's Liquid Soap

(Use SummerbeeMeadow's Advanced Liquid Soap Calculator: http://summerbeemeadow.com/content/advanced-calculator-solid-cream-or-liquid-soaps)

Recipe

• 65% Olive Oil
• 25% Coconut Oil
• 10% Castor Oil

• 100% KOH
• Amount of water equal to KOH to dissolve KOH + 200% (of KOH amount) as glycerin added to oils
○ Ex: 150g KOH, 150g Water, 300g Glycerin

• 3% Superfat

Add to Dilution Water:
• 3% (of paste weight) Sodium Lactate

Dilution Rate
• 1 part paste to .62 paste water (multiply paste weight by .62)

Instructions

1. Melt oils in double-boiler/crockpot (medium/low heat), add glycerin to oils
2. Dissolve KOH in equal amount of water
3. Add hot KOH solution to heated oils and whisk
4. Mixture will go through stages: opaque, clear amber, bubbles on top
5. After 10 minutes of whisking, may start to see bubbles flying up or a foamy head on (still liquid) solution, stop whisking
6. Tightly cover bowl/pot, off-heat, and let set for 6-24 hrs
7. Check periodically on mixture, scoop a spoon into it to see if it's a thick, sticky taffy consistency and translucent gold and check for zap
8. Heat water in pot to simmer, weigh paste into wide-mouth canning jar
9. Weigh out dilution water and SL and bring to boil, then add to paste a little bit at a time
10. Seal jar and shake then place in simmering water to soften for 15-20 minutes
11. Open jar and check to see if it's reached jelly consistency - if not, simmer for another 10 minutes
12. When the consistency is lumpy jelly, pulse with stickblender until there are no more lumps - will become milky colour
13. Reseal jar and return to the simmering water and turn the heat off, let rest for 3 hours in water bath
14. When ready to add fragrance, add equal amount of PS80 (mix both together before adding to liquid soap) - if soap becomes cloudy, add additional drops of PS80 until clear

 

[shunt2011]

You seemed to be having the same issue back in May when you posted regarding overcooked paste. You have cut down your cook time but are more than likely still cooking it too long hence causing dilution issues. I did the same in the beginning. I've learned you don't need to cook the dickens out of it.

 

[Susie]

You seemed to be having the same issue back in May when you posted regarding overcooked paste. You have cut down your cook time but are more than likely still cooking it too long hence causing dilution issues. I did the same in the beginning. I've learned you don't need to cook the dickens out of it.

^^^^What Shari said!

Again, it need not be cooked at all. I have successfully made lots of different recipes of liquid soap without cooking any of it. It only takes stirring or stickblending to emulsion, then you can put a lid on it and walk away. Truly.

Some recipes may take up to 4 hours (off heat) to gel completely, depending on room temperature and oils used. But you are not going to over cook soap if you don't cook it. Why not try it and let us know?