Harder bar of soap?

[Anthony0327]

Howdy,

So, I made my first batch of CP soap! I am really happy with how it came out. I went to go make a second batch but I used a different of fragrance I noticed it actually came out a little different. It may have just been I made a thicker trace which I a big chance since I mixed a little longer than the first batch. Anywho, my question is with the following recipe what should I add/subtract to make this just a bit harder? I am happy with how it came out just been thinking if I could test myself and make it a bit harder. Yes, I used palm oil. I caved in from the fact that I came to a conclusion that I can't make palm free soap if I have never felt or worked with a palm recipe. So, thank you, everyone, who helped me prepare for making my first batch of cold process of soap and I will upload pics soon. Also, really quick, I am thinking of making a charcoal soap recipe. Can you recommend some good fragrances or similar that would go along with a soap like that?

Thank you!!
Anthony

 

[Kittish]

Add a teaspoon or so of salt per pound of oils, that should help make the bars a little harder without needing to fiddle with a recipe you like.

May I also suggest making smaller batches? You'll find yourself buried in soap pretty quick tweaking a recipe and making 3 pounds of soap at a time. 1 pound, or 500 gram batches are great for trying out new recipes and recipe tweaks.

 

[Anthony0327]

Just straight up table salt? Sorry, lol I just want to make sure that everything I am doing is correct. Also, I am going to try reduce the amount and try a smaller batch so I don't make a whole loaf and just throw it away or something.

 

[Millie]

That will harden up over time, it just has a lot of extra water to lose. Try a 2:1 water to lye ratio next time, a.k.a 33% lye concentration (ok DeeAnna, 33.333% ). I think you'll be happy with it even without the salt. Table salt is fine - I've never felt the need for it, but each soaper has their own preferences.

 

[SaltedFig]

Anthony, Olive Oil doesn't show up much in the hardness rating (as a single oil, it has a hardness number of only 17!), but it will start out softer and end up harder than a lot of other soaps (in time). So your soap will end up like a brick in a couple of months, don't worry

A couple of suggestions - change your water to calculate to a lye concentration, this gives you better control over your recipes as you experiment, and don't go below 500grams as a minimum soap batter amount (to stop errors in measurements having too big a change effect on your results).

 

[Steve85569]

Then there is always the vinegar ( sodium acetate) that hardens soap too.

At this point in your soap making I would simply review some of the threads that discuss vinegar rather than jump right in to it. It does take a little bit of extra calculations ( for the sodium hydroxide needed to neutralize the vinegar) so I would stay basic for now. Hard bars will come along later.

Remember to let the soap cure properly before using. That recipe has a very high cleansing number for me.

Enjoy the journey!

 

[Millie]

For your fragrance question, you might have experienced your first bit of acceleration, or maybe you did just blend that batch a little more than the other. Spices and florals have a tendency to accelerate or even seize, or rice, all things you'll get to experience in your soaping journey.

When using palm oil, it is good to melt the whole container and stir to evenly distribute the fatty acids, or you'll get some batches that accelerate, and although I haven't checked to see the different sap values for the fatty acids in palm, it is probably better for your lye calculations as well. If you are lazy like me, you can pick up some plastic food storage containers at the dollar store, melt the whole bucket of palm just once, and distribute. Big time saver!

For the charcoal soap scent, whatever you like! For a start, any of these alone or combined would be nice: cedar, eucalyptus, peppermint (with a light hand, or it will be a very uncomfortable soap), rosemary, lavender.

P.s. Congratulations on your first two batches!!

 

[Anthony0327]

Yes, I am pretty sure it is the fragrance. I used a fragrance from bramble berry just to test out my first batch of soap and it worked like a charm, but I did the second one and could not figure out if I just mixed for too long( which I would not be surprised if I did. I get carried away with mixing sometimes) or if it was the fragrance, which also could play a fact. I used this same fragrance in bath bombs from Essential Depot and I just had some issues with it.

 

[dibbles]

Yay Anthony! You made soap! If you decide to try adding salt to your next batch, dissolve it in your water before you add the lye.

For the charcoal soap, it's hard to recommend a fragrance without knowing what you have. Do you want to use essential oils or fragrance oils? EOs that I like with charcoal are a blend of lavender, tea tree, rosemary and litsea. Patchouli if you like that, with cedar wood or a folded orange. FOs that could be nice are bamboo types or tea scents.

 

[Anthony0327]

Sorry, my spelling. I have been studying for the SAT's for these past two weeks and can't think straight while typing

 

[Kittish]

Just straight up table salt? Sorry, lol I just want to make sure that everything I am doing is correct. Also, I am going to try reduce the amount and try a smaller batch so I don't make a whole loaf and just throw it away or something.

Yes, straight up table salt. Non-iodized is better, should be right next to the iodized salt and cost about the same. Dissolve the salt in your water before adding lye.

Also, don't throw any soap away before getting advice from folks here! Almost every soap that isn't what you wanted or messes up some way can be saved (if you want to make the effort- rebatching isn't quite as easy as it looks and salting out looks downright intimidating).

 

[Susie]

For your next batch, you might also consider lowering your CO to 20% and adding that 10% to the Palm Oil. That will give you an entirely different recipe that you might like better.

You will also need to wait for this batch to cure 4-6 weeks before judging it. It should be plenty hard by then, and you may not need to add salt.

Congratulations on your first batch!

 

[IrishLass]

Congratulations! You are on your way to becoming a soap-making addict!

Your recipe looks like it will cure out to a very hard soap. It's just soft right now because A) it is new and still needs to go through a proper cure yet, and B) because you used the default water amount on SoapCalc, which is a 'full water' amount, which is a lot of water.

I would definitely follow the suggestion of Millie and SaltedFig to reduce your water amount by going to the lye concentration box and typing in 33%. A 33% lye concentration is a really nice water discount to use for both experienced soapmakers and beginners alike. I call it my 'Goldilocks' lye concentration because it's not too much water and not too little water- it's just right. I use it for about 98% of my batches. With a 33% lye concentration, your soap will firm up quicker and you will be able to unmold much sooner.


IrishLass

 

[Millie]

I'm curious about the benefits of using full water in cold process soap. I'll post it here so Anthony can benefit from your responses too.

So, yeah, what are the benefits? Water as 38% of oil weight seems to be the suggested rate for beginners, but so many problems pop up on the forum with this amount: separation, gooey soap (initially), unmolding problems and issues with overheating. The only benefit I can see is more working time. Are there other benefits?

I have only used this % when using liquids other than water, using the split method (that is adding my special liquid (like milk or aloe) to the oils, and using equal weight water to sodium hydroxide for my lye mixture).

 

[Logansama]

Howdy,

S I am happy with how it came out just been thinking if I could test myself and make it a bit harder. Yes, I used palm oil. I caved in from the fact that I came to a conclusion that I can't make palm free soap if I have never felt or worked with a palm recipe. So, thank you, everyone, who helped me prepare for making my first batch of cold process of soap and I will upload pics soon. Also, really quick, I am thinking of making a charcoal soap recipe. Can you recommend some good fragrances or similar that would go along with a soap like that?

Thank you!!
Anthony

A couple questions:

Are you trying to stay vegetarian? The only time I use Palm now is when I am doing a vegetarian soap, tallow/lard make far better soap, IMO. I was shocked at the difference when I first started using tallow. You can also do really hard bars without so much hard oil. When properly cured, 100% olive oil Castile is harder than any of my other soaps.

IMO, your recipe looks very high on the coconut and palm. Its hard but it might be drying. But I make soap for face and sensitive skin, so I go higher on OO and fine oils. I didn't look at your super fat, but SF should help.

How long have you cured? Soaping is a game of patience, its safe to use within just a few days but the longer you cure, the better. I don't send mine out for sale or gifts before 6 weeks, and ten weeks is better. For Castile, I make it a year ahead and its hard as rock.

Anyhow you can harden your soap by doing a water discount, or by adding a little salt or sodium lactate. I generally do that because it helps unfolding.

Have fun!

 

[DeeAnna]

...Water as 38% of oil weight seems to be the suggested rate for beginners, but so many problems pop up on the forum with this amount: separation, gooey soap (initially), unmolding problems and issues with overheating....

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I want to once again encourage folks to get away from using "water as % of oils." The proportion of water to ALKALI (NaOH and/or KOH) is far more important than the proportion of water to FAT.

So if you make no other change in your soaping methods, make this one -- switch from "water as % of oils" to lye concentration or water:lye ratio.

I've explained this idea a lot in past threads, but finally put all my thoughts together in an article on my website. Here ya go: https://classicbells.com/soap/waterInSoap.html

It's a bit of a work in progress, so please let me know if something is not clear.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Never apologise for that! This is one of the most important steps to take when developing soaping skills and branching out, especially with formulating recipes and trying to get consistent results. People need to hear it to know what it's all about and what it means to them. Preach it!