"Hard" Babassu oil for deodorant?

[cerelife]

I replied to a post a while back about Soaper's Choice Babassu oil being liquid, stating that mine had always been hard as a rock.
I stand corrected. My latest order of babassu from them arrived as liquid and has roughly the same consistency/melting point as coconut oil. After contacting customer service, I was told that this was the norm for babassu and the new oil was the only one they offered.
This 'new' babassu was a disaster in my deodorant recipe based on their older hard version of this oil!
Can anyone point me in the right direction for "hard" babassu oil? I've searched the posts and looked over the New Directions website. They offer a few different options for babassu oil, but with no melting points for any of them!! AND the prices seem a little crazy...more than double the Soaper's Choice prices??
Any help or advice would be most welcome!

 

[DeeAnna]

I bought my hard babassu here: https://www.thesage.com/catalog/products/Babassu-Oil.html

What I have is a brittle solid at normal room temperature -- it kind of fractures apart when I dig into it with a spoon. It's been a few years however, so I can't make any promises that a new purchase will be the hard version.

It seems like most suppliers (and most of us, until the "Defunk da pits" thread) are not aware that babassu can have various melt points. edit: Here's a link to the "Defunk" thread: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/de-funk-de-pits.60682/unread

 

[amd]

I purchased from WSP and it is hard in the container. I think their price might be a bit higher though, even with shipping included.

 

[cerelife]

What I have is a brittle solid at normal room temperature -- it kind of fractures apart when I dig into it with a spoon.

YES!! This is a perfect description of what Soaper's Choice used to carry!
Thank you both for the suggestions. I'll order small amounts from both suppliers to see if it's what I'm looking for!

 

[Lion Of Judah]

..... My Babassu (refined) from NDA is rock hard .

 

[madison]

I wonder if I am getting it right, so you are all talking about babassu hard oil not babassu butter?

 

[cerelife]

..... My Babassu (refined) from NDA is rock hard .

This one?
https://www.newdirectionsaromatics.com/products/carrier-oils/babassu-refined-carrier-oil.html
And have you ordered it from them recently? Sorry for all the questions, but I just don't want to make the same costly mistake again that I did with Soaper's Choice - assuming it's the same oil that they offered in the past!
Also, I would welcome any suggestions for things y'all love from NDA to make the jump from the $51 gallon of Babassu to the $100 minimum order! I guess I could just order 2 gallons of Babassu, but I'd like to know if they have any products that I should check out.

 

[cerelife]

I wonder if I am getting it right, so you are all talking about babassu hard oil not babassu butter?

Good question. I had never heard of babassu 'butter' until I looked at the NDA website.
https://www.newdirectionsaromatics.com/products/butters/babassu-refined-butter.html
I can't find anything in their documentation that clarifies the difference between this and the oil (as in additives, etc.), but this certainly looks like my old 'hard' babassu oil. What do you think DeeAnna??

 

[HowieRoll]

I seem to recall from the mega De Funk da Pits thread that it was NDA's babassu butter, as madison mentioned, that was noted as being rock hard. The MSDS for that product indicates it melts between 30-36C (86-97F), which would definitely be higher than the babassu oil I've purchased from other vendors. I don't have any direct experience with this butter, however.

Based on the De Funk thread, which is full of awesomely useful info, the most recent iteration of magnesium deodorant I made used (and I'm mentioning this recipe as an example if you wanted to play around with the babassu oil you currently have):

44% Babassu Oil (not the hard butter)
35% Magnesium Hydroxide
10% E-wax (from Mtn. Rose Herbs)
10% Cetyl Alcohol
1% Fragrance

It turned out to be just a scooch firmer than I'd like it to be, so will dial back the e-wax and cetyl alcohol by 0.5-1% each next time. But it is a very effective deodorant for me.

Other things I love from NDA:

Rosewood Natural Blend EO (like love, love, love this oil)
Patchouli (Dark) EO
Most of the other EOs I've ordered from them
Unrefined Cocoa Butter
Guava Powder Fruit Extract (just tried it in a syndet shampoo and love the soft hair effect)
Citric Acid (pretty good price)

Happy shopping!

 

[amd]

Cerelife: some things I order from NDA are essential oils, dark patchouli, lemongrass, spearmint, and eucalyptus are the ones I use the most, although I do also have the Japanese Peppermint, Spanish Rosemary and Texas Cedarwood. I also use their silk peptides, ground pumice and french clays (I have pink and green from them). I want to get their dead sea mud but I know I won't use 2.2lbs on my own! I haven't tried any of their FO's, but I will probably add a few to my next order just out of curiosity.

 

[madison]

Good question. I had never heard of babassu 'butter' until I looked at the NDA website.
https://www.newdirectionsaromatics.com/products/butters/babassu-refined-butter.html
I can't find anything in their documentation that clarifies the difference between this and the oil (as in additives, etc.), but this certainly looks like my old 'hard' babassu oil. What do you think DeeAnna??

I bought my babassu butter twice from plant guru, they sell 8 oz for $14.

 

[cerelife]

Thank you both so much for the recommendations!!
And HowieRoll, I'll try that recipe in the meantime as I have 7 lbs of the softer oil! Thank you for sharing!!

 

[SoaperForLife]

Based on the De Funk thread, which is full of awesomely useful info, the most recent iteration of magnesium deodorant I made used (and I'm mentioning this recipe as an example if you wanted to play around with the babassu oil you currently have):

44% Babassu Oil (not the hard butter)
35% Magnesium Hydroxide

So, (and I'm posting this because I am curious to know) Making Cosmetics recommends a maximum of 30% Magnesium Hydroxide and this recipe uses 35%. Does it matter at all?

 

[Lion Of Judah]

This one?
https://www.newdirectionsaromatics.com/products/carrier-oils/babassu-refined-carrier-oil.html
And have you ordered it from them recently? Sorry for all the questions, but I just don't want to make the same costly mistake again that I did with Soaper's Choice - assuming it's the same oil that they offered in the past!
Also, I would welcome any suggestions for things y'all love from NDA to make the jump from the $51 gallon of Babassu to the $100 minimum order! I guess I could just order 2 gallons of Babassu, but I'd like to know if they have any products that I should check out.

Greetings cerelife , I apologize for responding so late to your post . The last time I've ordered Babassu from them was last year sometime . I've been ordering from them for years now and their Babassu Oil I get comes in a 33.3oz bottle that needs a warm bath to get it fluid . It has never melted on me. The "butter " I've never used so i can not speak on it . If you seriously want to try their product I would recommend putting fort any deep concerns you may have about their product to them . I'm not endorsing them nor am I a representative in any way , but I'm a satisfied customer .

 

[HowieRoll]

So, (and I'm posting this because I am curious to know) Making Cosmetics recommends a maximum of 30% Magnesium Hydroxide and this recipe uses 35%. Does it matter at all?

I do not know where Making Cosmetics came up with their 30% max usage rate information, but will say I've not found any studies indicating as such (not saying they aren't out there, just that in my due diligence prior to using mag hydroxide I did not see any). The recipe I make with 35% mag hydroxide is actually down from my original experimentation, where I used 40%. In either case, I have not had any ill effects, and by ill effects I mean skin irritation. I also found the 35% mag hydroxide recipe to be as effective as the 40% recipe, so my plan was to cut the mag hydroxide further in the next batch because I like to tinker.

 

[earlene]

Well, now I know to save my hard babassu oil only for deodorant! A couple of times I've thought of using it in something else, but so far I am so happy with it for deodorant that's all I've used it for. And now reading this about Soaper's Choice new low-melting point babassu, I'm in no rush to use it all up.

 

[DeeAnna]

I'm currently trying a babassu-mag hydroxide deo with only 15% mag hydroxide. I don't think it controls odor quite as well as my previous batch at 26% mag hydroxide. My nose seems to be picking up a bit more armpit odor than usual since I started using this batch. It's nothing that I think others would pick up, but I am. I'm tentatively thinking 20% to 25% is going to be the sweet spot for me.

 

[cerelife]

HowieRoll, thank you so much for that recipe!! I made it a couple of days ago and so far I'm loving it! The addition of E-wax and cetyl alcohol added more stability (hardness) to the softer babassu without sacrificing the 'glide' if that makes sense. And this recipe is actually easier to work with than my old hard babassu recipe since the additives make it thinner (?) and the mag-hydroxide doesn't seem to have the tendency to clump up as much as in my old recipe! But it firms up like a champ to a very nice tube of deodorant. Not so soft that you feel like you're just smearing it into your armpits, but not so hard that it tugs on the guys' armpit hair (this is big deal with my husband!), so THANK YOU!!
Everyone has been so kind and helpful on this thread and I truly appreciate all of the advice and recommendations
I don't know if this is useful information for anyone, but since I've learned so much from the "De-funk the Pits'" thread, I thought I'd add a couple of my thoughts about making this kind of deodorant:
I found that a milk frother was helpful in blending the mag-hydroxide into the oils to get rid of small clumps and making the mixture nice and creamy.
After trying several EOs and FOs from different companies in deodorant, there was one that stood out in that both the husband and I had coworkers comment that we smelled really nice (in 110 degree temps on the flight-line for him/stressful ER situations for me) and asked what kind of deodorant we were using. And NO COMMENTS during normal conditions - this FO isn't overpowering by any means, but it's a pleasant unisex scent that works really well in deodorant under extreme conditions.
http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/products/lime-basil-mandarin-fragrance-oil.aspx

 

[HowieRoll]

Yay, I'm glad it is working out for you! I can't take any credit, because the recipe I use was formulated based on the tips and tricks gleaned from the De Funk De Pits thread. It's been trial and error to try to get the right proportions of ewax/cetyl/babassu, as initially I didn't use enough ewax/cetyl and found it was a little too meltable and I was smearing a bit more on my pits than I needed. But then I went a little too far the other way, because now I need to dial the ewax/cetyl back a bit to make it just a bit softer. I am kicking myself because I never thought to test the tube sitting in my car on a hot day this past summer, and am curious how it would hold up in the heat (and especially when traveling).

I'm also playing around with the percentage of magnesium hydroxide, so DeeAnna, appreciate what you've shared on that end.

It seems every single one of my DIY projects are a work in progress!

 

[DeeAnna]

"...It seems every single one of my DIY projects are a work in progress!..."

I agree with that, @HowieRoll! I went overboard with the emulsifier (I'm using BTMS) and cetyl and made the deo much too hard. My pits were real unhappy about being scrubbed with a "rock" of too-hard deo.