gel phase invention needed

[SoapDaddy70]

I wish there was a pop up timer to let you know if your soap gelled or not. Kind of like in Purdue chickens or turkeys. Did my first CPOP last night and went to bed and just hoped it gelled overnight. Is there any tell tale signs to know that it gelled or not? I have not cut it yet. Going to wait till tomorrow. A couple of my first batches were made in the daytime and i wrapped in towels and actually witnessed them entering gel phase and didn’t get partial gel so I was stoked. Last few I am not so sure about. Haven’t gotten any partial gel so happy about that, just wish I knew for sure whether a soap gelled or not. Not experienced enough yet to see the telltale signs of gelled versus non gelled soap.

 

[AliOop]

I love the idea of a pop-up timer! Some of our members use heating pads under their soaps, and test it with temp guns to make sure it reaches a certain temp.

For me, with cool master-batched lye, and rarely any fresh milk soaps (all powdered), all my recipes need help gelling (except salt bars or other 100% CO). To encourage gelling, I insulate the molds in a non-drafty place, and remove them once the mold is no longer warm to the touch. I can tell whether they've gelled by the colors. No gel = very muted colors. Gel = brighter, deeper colors.

 

[Shewearsfunnyhat]

If I want it to gel, I force gel by putting it into the oven at 170 f.

 

[AliOop]

If I want it to gel, I force gel by putting it into the oven at 170 f.

I haven't had good luck with CPOP - I always get a weird texture on the top. I think my oven probably gets hotter than 170, even when set to as low as possible.

 

[Zing]

I want a pop-up timer!!! It is soo hard to wait! I always gel my soaps. When I use loaf molds, I wrap in many layers of towels. If I soap in the high 90s/low 100s, I just use towels. If I soap at room temperature, I put a heating pad under the mold and then cover with towels, and turn off the pad after a couple of hours. It's a simple pleasure to reach in under the towels and feel the warm mold.

The only time I do CPOP is when I use a mini-cylinder mold. I pre-heat to 170, then turn off the oven, put the mold in and wait overnight.

Ditto to @AliOop , gelled soaps have brighter colors and more definition between colors.

Keep us posted!

 

[SoapDaddy70]

I haven't had good luck with CPOP - I always get a weird texture on the top. I think my oven probably gets hotter than 170, even when set to as low as possible.

Same thing happens to me. I have an older oven and I think WARM is probably hotter than 170 degrees. The top gets like a subtle wrinkly look and I definitely got silicone rash on the bottom of one batch. I think I may go back to just wrapping/insulating. I have only been making soap since end of September and have never got partial gel so happy about that but pretty sure a couple of my batches did not go through gel even with insulating. That is why I started to CPOP. I guess soapmaking wouldnt be fun or interesting if you knew exactly what was going to happen with every batch. It's always an adventure!!

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

My last batch I forced gelled w/ a heating pad on high to get enclosed cabinet warm' then turned down on low I covered soap w/ plastic first & towels. I noticed a small crack on top my que to remove heating pad it was getting to hot. Soap crack resealed & no glycerin rivers or soda ash but one of my FO may have vanilla in it cause color morphed to a light brown.

 

[Guspuppy]

I always CPOP, the only time I got silicone rash was when I thought the oven was too cold and turned it back on shortly after putting the soap in. My electric oven is from the 70's and it's lowest temp (on warm) is 200F, according to the thermometer I have in there. (I can't tell you how much I wish gas were available on my street!!) I can't just wrap because my house is like a freezer in winter!

 

[AliOop]

I can't just wrap because my house is like a freezer in winter!

mine too - husband prefers it at 68F in winter so I use heating pads this time of year.

 

[KimW]

Curiouser and curiouser... http://www.southbayabrams.com/pdf/sba_pop_up_timer.pdf

 

[cmzaha]

I gel all my soaps this way, but you do have to check on them once in a while if you are using a new fragrance that you do not know how it will act. I put my molds in low crates since I cannot cover my molds due to filling them to the very top, I put a lightweight towel across the top to absorb any condensation across the top of the crate and put the lid on. I have a lap heat blanket I put on top of the mold and a heating pad underneath. When I stack my crates I will wrap them in a heat blanket and sometimes a Mexican cotton blanket on top of all of them.

FYI, my room gets very cold, I soap cool with high tallow/lard and high palm recipes with 33% lye concentration on average so I have to force gel. It does require work because I have to alternate the crates when I am pouring multiple batches. I do peek and if I notice any getting too hot I pull the mold output it on a rack with a fan on it to cool it down. I do not like the oven method plus my HDPE molds can warp and do not fit in my oven on top of that only one can go in at a time. I make 6-8 batches at a time. While it is a pesky method, my soaps always gel and it works for me, and I can de-mold in 6-10 hrs or as soon as they are cool.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Curiouser and curiouser... http://www.southbayabrams.com/pdf/sba_pop_up_timer.pdf

lol! Last night I was looking at a stainless steel temperature probe with data logger. Unfortunately the unit costs almost $300 and the software and cable to download the data to my computer would cost another $100.

 

[violets2217]

Curiouser and curiouser... http://www.southbayabrams.com/pdf/sba_pop_up_timer.pdf

So what temperature do soaps gel at? The lowest pop-up temp is 146degrees. I just went and took my slab molds temp that I poured at 5:00pm and center is 146 degrees and outer edge is 103 degrees, then about 5mm in from edge is 130 degrees. I’ve never really checked temperature so thoroughly! But you’d definitely want pop up thingy near the edge to indicate a full gel.

 

[AliOop]

Gel temp varies depending upon the recipe, the starting temps of oils and lye, and how much water was used. The higher the water concentration, the lower the temp at which the soap will gel. I'd be interested to hear if there is a way to check, besides the usual visual cues.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

@AliOop A digital stainless steel probe-type kitchen thermometer works, as long as you don’t mind having holes in your soap. I bet one of the older non-digital meat thermometers would also work.

 

[AliOop]

But @Mobjack Bay how do you know what temp is required to gel your particular soap recipe, with your particular water percentage? Because my understanding is that that gel temp is affected by those factors, e.g., ghost-swirling with HW, LW batters.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

@AliOop Kevin Dunn has worked it out for some soap recipes and presented results in his Scientific Soapmaking book. There are numerous articles on his website and this one on the WSP website provides a reasonable summary: To Gel or Not To Gel - Wholesale Supplies Plus

I typically use around 35% lye concentration to cut down on ash, but it makes my soaps hard to gel. I tend to stay away from FOs that are “heaters” but have learned that I can push a recipe towards gel by working a bit warmer, using a heating pad, adding sugar, etc. It’s definitely recipe, batch size, and mold size dependent and I still have to keep my eye on things. I ended up with two partially gelled test batches the other day when I took molds off the heating pad too early. I was in FO testing mode and needed the heating pad for the next two test batches, The first batches were very clearly starting to gel when I popped them into a box and wrapped the box with a blanket. I assumed they would stay hot enough to finish gelling, but now I know I need another heating pad.

 

[rdc1978]

I wish there was a pop up timer to let you know if your soap gelled or not. Kind of like in Purdue chickens or turkeys. Did my first CPOP last night and went to bed and just hoped it gelled overnight. Is there any tell tale signs to know that it gelled or not? I have not cut it yet. Going to wait till tomorrow. A couple of my first batches were made in the daytime and i wrapped in towels and actually witnessed them entering gel phase and didn’t get partial gel so I was stoked. Last few I am not so sure about. Haven’t gotten any partial gel so happy about that, just wish I knew for sure whether a soap gelled or not. Not experienced enough yet to see the telltale signs of gelled versus non gelled soap.

Ha ha, I'd love such a thing too. I have used a meat thermometer to check the internal temperature of the soap, but I'm not sure what temperature and how long to achieve perfect gel phase.

My telltale sign is the colors darkening and the glossy look on top, but I use external heat to put my soaps through gel phase so I'm not sure if its the same. And while all my soaps go through gel, at least two have overheated.

 

[rdc1978]

I haven't had good luck with CPOP - I always get a weird texture on the top. I think my oven probably gets hotter than 170, even when set to as low as possible.

Have you ever tried just putting it in the oven at 200 for a bit? I've done this the last few times I soaped and it worked out well. I can't do a true CPOP because my oven is old and probably cheap and won't hold the heat well so the soap just ends up sitting in a room temperature box all night. But, the last few times I heated my oven to 200 (lowest temperature), placed the mold on the top rack (away from the heating element) and left it there while I cleaned up (I'd say about half an hour to an hour). If the side of the mold is toasty and warm then I can take the next steps. Maybe you could just leave it at 170 for a bit?

 

[AliOop]

@Mobjack Bay so do you know for each of your recipes (including water:lye ratio) the exact temp you need to reach on the outside of the soap in order to consistently achieve gel? If so, that is impressive!

Sadly, my typical imprecision (an extra drib of this oil, or a different additive) would make that a pretty unlikely feat for me. Fortunately, my soaps usually gel with nothing more than insulating, probably bc I soap around 100F, always add sugar, and usually add GM powder, too. Cavity molds are an exception, but a heating pad takes care of that pretty easily.