Gel phase and micas

[rdc1978]

This is probably a beginners question so I'm posing it here.

I always force my soaps through gel phase. I recently made a batch of soap with micas that were green, pink and a silver grey. I poured some into my loaf mold and had a bit leftover so I poured that into some individual cavity molds. The colors were beautiful and pastel-y in the molds. I put the soap in the loaf mold through gel phase, but I don't think the ones in the individual molds went through gel phase.

The colors of the loaf mold were SO MUCH DARKER than the ones in the cavity molds that did not go through gel phase. So, I have a few questions, all of which are probably basic.

1. Would I have retained a more "true" color if I had used less of the mica? The colorant looked nice in the soap batter, but I'm wondering if I'd have gotten colors more like what I had wanted (lighter and more pastel) if I had just learned to use a little less of the mica.

2. Could my problem be that the micas aren't soap stable? I purchased the micas I used off of Amazon, and I've generally been okay with them. They all say that they are soap stable, but I'm not sure if micas being stable in soap keeps the colors from changing in gel phase. Notably, the soaps that did not go through gel phase retained the lighter colors that I would have liked.

3. I like forcing my soaps through gel phase because it just seems easier. I've never NOT put my soaps through gel phase, but it seems to be at least one option for retaining the color in the soap. But how much longer does it take for the soap to harden if it doesn't go through gel phase? Does it end up as hard as gelled soap in the end? All of the soaps in the individual cavity molds that I haven't put through gel phase were pretty soft and mushy, but the colors were nice. I'm not sure what to do.

4. What does it mean when a mica is "soap stable?" and am I better off going with pigments...or is it just a matter of using less mica to account for the darkening that occurs during gel phase?

Sorry for this essay and thanks in advance to anyone who makes it this far reading my post!

Attached are some pictures so you can see the difference. Thanks again!

 

[Loran]

I also have a box of amazon mica and they all turn brighter then the color in the bag with or without gel. They seem the same to me. I ordered sample packets from someone suggested on here and tried their micas and theirs also turned out lighter then the color presented in the bag. I forgot who I’ll have to look when I get home. I’m still on the search for a mica that doesn’t discolor, if there are any that exist.

 

[rdc1978]

I also have a box of amazon mica and they all turn brighter then the color in the bag with or without gel. They seem the same to me. I ordered sample packets from someone suggested on here and tried their micas and theirs also turned out lighter then the color presented in the bag. I forgot who I’ll have to look when I get home. I’m still on the search for a mica that doesn’t discolor, if there are any that exist.

Oh, if you could share that would be great! Perhaps if I ordered from that retailer I could get the soap color I want.

I just ordered lab colors from BB, so I'll let update to let you know if they stay true to color in CP soap. I'm not hopeful, but everytime I see the sample pack of lab colors on BB and they say I can create 120 different shades, I'm so tempted that I just had to order it!

 

[Loran]

For sure. Ya the color schemes are endless! It’s just aggravating though, like how a red shade of mica ends up pink, a dark blue ends up light blue, it messes up your endgame design. Still looks awesome but it doesn’t come out how you wanted it.

 

[Zing]

I recommend purchasing micas from reputable soap supply companies only -- and warn that there's a lot of c--- (rhymes with trap) on Amazon.
To me, gelling makes the colors more intense. I too like to gel and can unmold my loaf molds after 24 hours. Leftover batter goes into small individual molds and take a week to harden, plus 20 minutes in the freezer before I can unmold them.
I love micas over any other colorant because I'm lazy and I like that I can just throw mica into the batter without pre-mixing or dispersing in oil first.
The colors of my micas from Bramble Berry largely match their photos on the website. I take good notes on what the actual shade turns out to be in cured soap. To lighten colors, I use titanium dioxide. To darken colors, I use black oxide (and a little goes a long way!).

 

[Loran]

Rustic essentials is where I ordered some sample micas. I only used one color so far and it faded(lightened) whatever the proper word is. Maybe certain colors do it and others stick well?? I’ll try the other colors before I come to a conclusion with their micas

 

[rdc1978]

Rustic essentials is where I ordered some sample micas. I only used one color so far and it faded(lightened) whatever the proper word is. Maybe certain colors do it and others stick well?? I’ll try the other colors before I come to a conclusion with their micas

Thanks for getting back to me!

 

[Todd Ziegler]

I also have a box of amazon mica and they all turn brighter then the color in the bag with or without gel. They seem the same to me. I ordered sample packets from someone suggested on here and tried their micas and theirs also turned out lighter then the color presented in the bag. I forgot who I’ll have to look when I get home. I’m still on the search for a mica that doesn’t discolor, if there are any that exist.

1. If you use less mica in your batter than you will get a lighter color, depending on the color of your batter to start with.

2. If your mica is not soap stable, it will manifest in different ways. Sometimes the color just disappears or it will change to a completely different color.

3. You can stop the gelling process by putting your mold and soap in the refrigerator or freezer after you pour it. Keep in mind that depending on your recipe, this might not stop the soap from heating up. If you can stop the gelling then you will get a more pastel or lighter color but mica, even from reputable sources, can behave weirdly.

4. The amount of time that it takes for soap to harden in the mold without gelling will depend on the recipe and additives that you use. If you use a little salt, vinegar or sodium lactate, then your soap will harden faster, even without gelling. Without additives or gelling and depending on your recipe, it could take a couple of days or more for it to harden.

 

[linne1gi]

I believe soap stable refers to the mica surviving saponification. Some micas are only able to be used in melt and pour soap. I also definitely recommend you buy micas from reputable soap making companies. I buy mine from MadMicas and Nurture Soap. I also agree with @Zing - micas bought on Amazon are c**p. All (or most anyway) micas will be darker if they go through gel - versus not gel.

 

[lenarenee]

Many people gel just to get the micas to “pop”. Most micas do intensify with gelling.

Pigments may be different story...I rarely use them so someone else may add that no.

Even some soap stable micas will do weird things when gelled. For example, I used some oranges from NSS, and the darkest color gelled to become the lightest color. And the lightest ungelled color gelled to be the darkest.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Regardless of where you get your micas, my understanding is that they will always be brighter when gelled. I do the same as you, and always pour the leftover batter into a small mold. I gel the main batch but not the leftover and the difference is always bright vs pastel. If you want to gel but keep the pastel, I would add some TD to your batter with the mica.

 

[rdc1978]

Thank you so much @Todd Ziegler @linne1gi , @KiwiMoose and @lenarenee . I learn so much from this board.

 

[Loran]

1. If you use less mica in your batter than you will get a lighter color, depending on the color of your batter to start with.

2. If your mica is not soap stable, it will manifest in different ways. Sometimes the color just disappears or it will change to a completely different color.

3. You can stop the gelling process by putting your mold and soap in the refrigerator or freezer after you pour it. Keep in mind that depending on your recipe, this might not stop the soap from heating up. If you can stop the gelling then you will get a more pastel or lighter color but mica, even from reputable sources, can behave weirdly.

4. The amount of time that it takes for soap to harden in the mold without gelling will depend on the recipe and additives that you use. If you use a little salt, vinegar or sodium lactate, then your soap will harden faster, even without gelling. Without additives or gelling and depending on your recipe, it could take a couple of days or more for it to harden.

Is there a standard rule of thumb to how much mica powder to use? Like x amout per x oz of batter? I’ve always just eyeballed it, or went of what I’ve seen in videos.

 

[linne1gi]

Is there a standard rule of thumb to how much mica powder to use? Like x amout per x oz of batter? I’ve always just eyeballed it, or went of what I’ve seen in videos.

Generalizing here that it’s 1 teaspoon per pound of oils.

 

[dibbles]

Is there a standard rule of thumb to how much mica powder to use? Like x amout per x oz of batter? I’ve always just eyeballed it, or went of what I’ve seen in videos.

This is a helpful video

 

[Todd Ziegler]

Is there a standard rule of thumb to how much mica powder to use? Like x amout per x oz of batter? I’ve always just eyeballed it, or went of what I’ve seen in videos.

As others have said, 1 tsp per pound of oil is the generally accepted usage rate. However, also check with the retailer where you purchased your mica. For example, mad mica recommends 1-2 tsp ppo for some of their micas. But usually 1 tsp ppo is plenty of mica because gelling can have a lot to do with the vibrance of your soap.

 

[earlene]

Soap stable is an iffy phrase. What you want are colorants that are stable in Cold Process soap. Also Known As: Alkali Stable. Or Cold Process stable. Not all dyes that can be used in soap are alkali stable, for example, colorants made for Melt & Pour do NOT have to be alkali stable, and therefore are not a good choice for Cold or Hot Process soap.

Many soapers use per cup of soap (which is NOT ppo, but from the total batch size) when they color soap. Some play it by eye (as opposed to playing it by ear). I prefer a combination of per cup of soap and playing it by eye (how the color appears when I mix it into the batter.)

 

[Loran]

Soap stable is an iffy phrase. What you want are colorants that are stable in Cold Process soap. Also Known As: Alkali Stable. Or Cold Process stable. Not all dyes that can be used in soap are alkali stable, for example, colorants made for Melt & Pour do NOT have to be alkali stable, and therefore are not a good choice for Cold or Hot Process soap.

Many soapers use per cup of soap (which is NOT ppo, but from the total batch size) when they color soap. Some play it by eye (as opposed to playing it by ear). I prefer a combination of per cup of soap and playing it by eye (how the color appears when I mix it into the batter.)

Ok with that said, I’ve put a good amount of mica in one soap, trying to make it look like the same color as in the packet, and it still didn’t get as dark as the color( a red shade), is there a point where too much mica is bad for the soap? Will it affect the quality?

 

[earlene]

Reds tend to bleed when too much is used, so before you ever get to too much mica causing quality issues, you are going to have red or pink lather and a mess in your sink. But, yes, potentially you could add too much mica in that it could make your soap crumbly, I guess. I don't know for sure, as I've never emptied a whole 2 ounces of mica into a batch of soap.

But if you are using the tiny little sample bags from RE, then you won't run into that problem anyway. If I recall correctly one small sample packet isn't enough to color a much soap to begin with. It depends on your batch size and how much mica you use. Also the shade you get depends on the colors of your base oils. Some formulas can produce a pure white soap even without colorants to assist, while other formulas can produce beige colored or even orange or yellow or soap with a green tint to it. So that has to be factored into the equation as well.

 

[Loran]

I guess I use a very small amount then. I can get 2 or 3 uses out of one sample pack. But I use it in 12-20 oz parts in a 40oz batch(2 or 3 color mix). It does make light colors but it looks perty gosh darn sexy to me lol.