full Gel

[Marilyn Norgart]

Doona=Down/feather bed cover
I call that phenomena a rind (totally unscientific made up by me).
It can happen close to gel but sometimes from overheating.
Soap at around 110*F. Don’t peek at your wrapped soap for 12 hours.
Keep your heat mat really low.
I tried a heat mat and ended up with a hard rind - overheating.
Yours looks soft which would mean not quite gelled.
It’s a pain working out exactly how to get full gel but once you get it it is consistent for your environment and climate until summer when it might need tweaking.

what temp would be considered overheating? I have researched that but maybe just didn't use the right words. the reason I have even but the heat on it was cuz the temps were only in the 90s when i got it in the mold, will it heat up on its own? next batch I make I will try all of the suggestions I have gotten here.

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

thanks to all for the great suggestions!!!

 

[DeeAnna]

That "rind" in your photos doesn't look like an issue of gel vs no gel. The pattern created by partial gel is always round or oval due to the physics of heat transfer.

In your bars, the color change is almost parallel to the outside surfaces of the soap loaf and has some relatively sharp corners. I have seen something like this when colorants darken/lighten upon exposure to air. Eventually the entire color will morph to the "rind" color.

The color difference could be caused by other issues I suppose. Some possibilities -- Something leaching from the mold into the soap. Settling of ingredients if the batter is poured into the mold when very thin. Not sure what else, but what I do feel fairly confident about is this is not a partial gel thing.

 

[jcandleattic]

That "rind" in your photos doesn't look like an issue of gel vs no gel. The pattern created by partial gel is always round or oval due to the physics of heat transfer.

In your bars, the color change is almost parallel to the outside surfaces of the soap loaf and has some relatively sharp corners. I have seen something like this when colorants darken/lighten upon exposure to air. Eventually the entire color will morph to the "rind" color.

The color difference could be caused by other issues I suppose. Some possibilities -- Something leaching from the mold into the soap. Settling of ingredients if the batter is poured into the mold when very thin. Not sure what else, but what I do feel fairly confident about is this is not a partial gel thing.

This is what I was trying to describe, but couldn't do it as eloquently - thank you DeeAnna.

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

thank you DeeAnna, I will look for the soap changing colors then. which wouldn't be the worst thing. maybe I need to try these colors in the mold I have been using all along and see what happens. you have given me a few things to think of and watch for

 

[penelopejane]

what temp would be considered overheating? I have researched that but maybe just didn't use the right words. the reason I have even but the heat on it was cuz the temps were only in the 90s when i got it in the mold, will it heat up on its own? next batch I make I will try all of the suggestions I have gotten here.

I don't like to cpop at 170*F
I have had soaps get a hard rind or turn into rubber at that temp.
I know some people do it and it works for them.
I heat the oven to 110*F and turn it off before putting my soap in.

The soap heats itself as it saponifies. You are trying to keep the microclimate around your soap stable by wrapping it and putting it in the preheated oven.

I soap warm (110*F) so that I don't get stearic spots as I use butters and that works for me.
In winter we can get down to 53*F (10*C) in my soaping room and I've worked out that if I soap warm and put my soap in a polystyrene box and cover it and I get full gel.
Took me a while to work it out - not too hot and not too cold.

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

I don't like to cpop at 170*F
I have had soaps get a hard rind or turn into rubber at that temp.
I know some people do it and it works for them.
I heat the oven to 110*F and turn it off before putting my soap in.

The soap heats itself as it saponifies. You are trying to keep the microclimate around your soap stable by wrapping it and putting it in the preheated oven.

I soap warm (110*F) so that I don't get stearic spots as I use butters and that works for me.
In winter we can get down to 53*F (10*C) in my soaping room and I've worked out that if I soap warm and put my soap in a polystyrene box and cover it and I get full gel.
Took me a while to work it out - not too hot and not too cold.

Thanks Penelopejane!!! I usually try to soap at around 110 or a little lower. yikes you soap in 53 degrees. I don't have a light in my oven but I will try and play around with the temp--maybe start low and go higher if need be. my stove maybe getting a work out now!! its just me so I rarely use it anymore I thinks its amazing how everything seems to work out differently for everybody. its so nice to have different viewpoints

 

[KiwiMoose]

what is a doona? oh geez summer might be easier then, it has been so flippin cold here. thanks again for your input-I appreciate it

Q: What lies on your bed and sings?
A: Madoona

A joke that only Aussies ‘get’.

 

[penelopejane]

Q: What lies on your bed and sings?
A: Madoona

A joke that only Aussies ‘get’.

I laughed!

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

made aloe vera soap last night and when I checked the heat in my oven it was way hotter than it should have been with the temp I had it set at (set at 150 but it was 237 degrees) so I didn't put the soap in the oven and I was using my heating pad on my feet so I didn't use that. I covered it with cardboard box and towels. it gelled but dang, when I cut it this morning it had that rind I was hearing about earlier in this post. it peeled off some of the bars, I think cuz my cutter didn't cut it. it wasn't very thick, kinda like a thick skin. just so I get this clear in my mind--this rind is from over heating? does it dissolve or does it stay intact in water? I used the same recipe I always do, just doubled it but I soaped 10 degrees higher than I normally do as I was just adding slight color to the bars and not doing any kind of swirl. I was under the impression that if soap over heated it would crack or do the volcano thing so I am kinda confused. could this skin be something that was in the aloe vera? I used it instead of water at 100% and it looked kinda cloudy. except for the rind the soap looks good.

 

[penelopejane]

Can you post a photo please?

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

 

[penelopejane]

What is the recipe including additives?
It is strange that the rind has flaked off.
I think something else is going on here.

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

13 oz lard
8.5 coconut oil
9.5 safflower
4.54 lye
10.20 aloe vera juice (it had citric acid in it)
I was wondering if its the citric acid but everybody that uses aloe juice must be using--should I have run this through a calculator??
I cut the rind off and its been two days so I just tried it and it is really bubbly

 

[penelopejane]

13 oz lard
8.5 coconut oil
9.5 safflower
4.54 lye
10.20 aloe vera juice (it had citric acid in it)
I was wondering if its the citric acid but everybody that uses aloe juice must be using--should I have run this through a calculator??
I cut the rind off and its been two days so I just tried it and it is really bubbly

At 30% lye conc your water is ok.
How much citric acid? Did you use soda bicarb?
What colour did you use?
How much FO and which FO?
Any other additives?

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

How much citric acid? Did you use soda bicarb?
What colour did you use?
How much FO and which FO?
Any other additives?

no FO--the citric acid was in the aloe vera juice--I am assuming as a preservative, and I used a very small amount (around 1/4 t) of mica to slightly color and I used part of the oil from the recipe with the mica

 

[penelopejane]

Soap calc says 4.4 Oz lye and you used 4.5 Oz lye so you might (?) have enough to cover the extra required to neutralise the citric acid but I don’t know.

Most people use aloe Vera without additives as unless you know the exact amounts of the additives it can throw a recipe out.

I am really sorry but I don’t know what went wrong with your soap. I’d re read DeeAnna’s post above. It seems like a strange phenomena as it can peel off. Most rinds I’ve seen are hard and sort of foamy ash and are caused by overheating, that doesn’t appear to be the case with yours.

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

Soap calc says 4.4 Oz lye and you used 4.5 Oz lye so you might (?) have enough to cover the extra required to neutralise the citric acid but I don’t know.

Most people use aloe Vera without additives as unless you know the exact amounts of the additives it can throw a recipe out.

I am really sorry but I don’t know what went wrong with your soap. I’d re read DeeAnna’s post above. It seems like a strange phenomena as it can peel off. Most rinds I’ve seen are hard and sort of foamy ash and are caused by overheating, that doesn’t appear to be the case with yours.

thank you so much for your input, it means a lot that you took the time to try and help me. maybe next time I will try to use fresh aloe. I have re-read this whole post multiple times . this rind seems kinda rubbery. well life goes on--I really think I am going to like this soap though

 

[penelopejane]

thank you so much for your input, it means a lot that you took the time to try and help me. maybe next time I will try to use fresh aloe. I have re-read this whole post multiple times . this rind seems kinda rubbery. well life goes on--I really think I am going to like this soap though

It’s not a problem with gel as it’s reached full gel. It is something else. Mold reaction, additive reaction...I don’t know.

To work it out you might have to make the same recipe with plain water. If you don’t get the rind then it will most likely be the aloe.
Or it could be one of the oils.
Or the mold material. Or the cleaning of the mold.
Sometimes it is a process of elimination.

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

It’s not a problem with gel as it’s reached full gel. It is something else. Mold reaction, additive reaction...I don’t know.

To work it out you might have to make the same recipe with plain water. If you don’t get the rind then it will most likely be the aloe.
Or it could be one of the oils.
Or the mold material. Or the cleaning of the mold.
Sometimes it is a process of elimination.

its the recipe I always use and even though I have a new mold, I made a double batch and used my old mold too, and clean it the same way. so I am thinking its the aloe--I will try again using fresh and see how that goes. I am going to try and use the rinds too and see what that is like. I have never tried using anything but water and I need to keep trying till I get this right cuz I wanna try the beer then