Fractionated Coconut Oil in CP

[ResolvableOwl]

MCT: All lauric oils contain MC fatty acids (C6:0…C10:0) to some degree (a few % of each). Palm kernel oil and coconut oil are the most economical sources, and manufacturers choose whatever is cheaper (and what to do with the “waste” lauric/myristic and long-chain fatty acids). To make MCT oil, a lot of fancy transesterification is going on, to concentrate the MC fatty acids with satisfactory yield; in the end it is somewhat “synthetical” regardless of the origin of the fatty acids. If manufacturers mix CO and PKO, the three FAs of one single MCT triglyceride molecule will probably originate from photosynthesis of both Elaeis guineensis and Cocos nucifera. (If the blend is 1:1, it's a fun little mathematical exercise to calculate that the chance, for any triglyceride, to source from both plants, is 87.5%).

Fractionated Coconut: the MCT-rich fraction of coconut oil. You might know the drops that sweat out of unrefined coconut oil when stored around room temperature for an extended time? It's just this liquid, just made by industrial-scale purification (like splitting palm oil into olein and stearin). Its MCT percentage (and, consequently, the saponification value) is very much dependent on how far the purification went, anywhere between “dirty” natural separation, and highly refined grades that are chemically indistinguishable from transesterified MCT. You won't easily know.

It is unfortunate that vendors really don't care about this distinction, and appear to wildly mix them up, depending on if they want it to appear a “high purity chemical” or a “natural ingredient” (serving very different markets that worship very different “red flags”, sigh). Saponification value critically depends on the precise fatty acid composition, and I'm actually surprised how close the different values are (0.232, 0.237, 0.2321, 0.237 [from my notes; they removed that value sometime in the last year]; theoretical values: tri-C12:0=0.188, tri-C10:0=0.216, tri-C8:0=0.255, tri-C6:0=0.310). However, additions are probably so small that these differences don't matter anyway, with the limited value of MCT oils (whatever variety) as soapmaking oils in mind (not even talking about price).

I have used MCT oil once as a solvent/carrier oil for grated orange zest, added to HP soap after cooking. Colour and scent carried over well, and the high excess fats didn't leave the skin greasy or inhibit lather as badly as long-chain superfats would.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I have used MCT oil once as a solvent/carrier oil for grated orange zest, added to HP soap after cooking. Colour and scent carried over well, and the high excess fats didn't leave the skin greasy or inhibit lather as badly as long-chain superfats would.

Good to know! I'm planning on using MCT oil at 5% SF to 0% SF CP soap for the Grocery Store Soap challenge.

 

[soapmaker]

A while back NDA made an issue out of this, saying most companies were selling what they called fractionated CO but it was actually palm kernel oil. ( as was theirs I'm assuming) because they put theirs on sale as clearance and got the actual Ecocert CO.
( And put the price up)

 

[Adobehead]

I was taught in massage school that fractionated coconut oil was the best for massage because it doesn't collect in the sheets and go rancid making them permanently stinky like other oils. That's what I always used with a few drops of EO for fun.
So, if you don't know what to do with it, try making massage oil. Easy product to make!

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Just found this by chance:
https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/blog/secret-to-the-best-soap-recipe/

(Capric, caprylic and palmitoleic acids are generally at such low quantities that they don’t contribute to soap qualities in a noticeable way. However those fatty acids are similar to lauric and palmitic but more conditioning.)

Not quite happy with either of these statements. Well, except for the “generally at such low quantities that they don’t contribute to soap qualities in a noticeable way”. This is reasonable – except if you use fractionated or transesterified MCT oil (for capric/caprylic), or macadamia/buckthorn oil or some animal fats (OT, but I'd love to see some first-hand experience on palmitoleic acid C16:1. I'd bet that it behaves more like oleic acid C18:1 rather than palmitic acid C16:0).

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Just found this by chance:
https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/blog/secret-to-the-best-soap-recipe/

IMHO (In My Humble Opinion), Kenna is both brilliant and generous with sharing her knowledge and experience with soapmakers. The FREE workbook at the end of the article is just icing on the cake for those wishing to turn their efforts into a business. Thanks for posting that link. I'm thinking It belongs in the Beginner's Forum as a dedicated thread.

Not quite happy with either of these statements. Well, except for the “generally at such low quantities that they don’t contribute to soap qualities in a noticeable way”.

Try soaping it first to see if what you think is true.

Like I said here earlier in this thread.... IME (In My Experience) FCO, neither CCT or MCT oil, is a good candidate for making soap. It's wonderful in lotion & creams. In soap, not so much. I'm going to experiment with it @ 5% SF in a 0% SF Trinity of Oils formula w/lard for Grocery Store Soap Challenge - that's where I think it may serve it's best purpose in soap. But that's just me. I should change my handle to "The Tinkerer!"

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

IMHO (In My Humble Opinion), Kenna is both brilliant and generous with sharing her knowledge and experience with soapmakers. The FREE workbook at the end of the article is just icing on the cake for those wishing to turn their efforts into a business. Thanks for posting that link. I'm thinking It belongs in the Beginner's Forum as a dedicated thread.
View attachment 55884

Try soaping it first to see if what you think is true.

Like I said here earlier in this thread.... IME (In My Experience) FCO, neither CCT or MCT oil, is a good candidate for making soap. It's wonderful in lotion & creams. In soap, not so much. I'm going to experiment with it @ 5% SF in a 0% SF Trinity of Oils formula w/lard for Grocery Store Soap Challenge - that's where I think it may serve it's best purpose in soap. But that's just me. I should change my handle to "The Tinkerer!"

Fantastic info, I saved links to my readers list. Much appreciated .

Ive used my MCT OIL in my HP soap & add @ end, that way I know its not eaten up by the lye. I usually wont add it to my CP soaps.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Ive used my MCT OIL in my HP soap & add @ end, that way I know its not eaten up by the lye. I usually wont add it to my CP soaps.

So, do you formulate your oils at 0% SF then add 5% SF MCT OIL at the end?

I was inspired to add MCT as SF from @Kcryss who also does HP and adds it at the end.
I'll be doing CP and adding it to my warmed oils before adding the NaOH solution.
Just curious to see if it makes a discernible difference.

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

So, do you formulate your oils at 0% SF then add 5% SF MCT OIL at the end?

I was inspired to add MCT as SF from @Kcryss who also does HP and adds it at the end.
I'll be doing CP and adding it to my warmed oils before adding the NaOH solution.
Just curious to see if it makes a discernible difference.

I account for 5% sf then added MCT Oil @ end. My soap often was soft but I used a little extra cure time.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I account for 5% sf then added MCT Oil @ end. My soap often was soft but I used a little extra cure time.

Just to be clear... So the entire batch is HP processed at 5% SF.
You wait until the end to add the MCT Oil -- Which may not be 5% of the total oils?

 

[RDak]

Just to be clear... So the entire batch is HP processed at 5% SF.
You wait until the end to add the MCT Oil -- Which may not be 5% of the total oils?

Yes, I could be wrong but what I too think she meant is she creates her 5% SF recipe but waits to the end to add the amount of MCT Oil listed in her recipe.

Whether that gives her a 0% SF, negative SF or positive SF while cooking I don't know.