Formula of a famous soap

[kernelacid]

Hi. I'm trying to figure out the formula for a famous soap. (for personal use) I would be glad if you help me in this regard.

The formula is:
SODIUM PALMATE, SODIUM PALM KERNELATE, AQUA (WATER), PARFUM (FRAGRANCE), GLYCERIN, PALM KERNEL ACID, SODIUM CHLORIDE, DECYL GLUCOSIDE, HEXYL CINNAMAL, LIMONENA, ALLANTOIN, AMYL CINNAMAL, LINALOOL, EVERNIA PRUNASTRI (OAKMOSS) EXTRACT, TETRASODIUM ETIDRONATE. TETRASODIUM EDTA, CINNAMYL ALCOHOL, GERANIOL, CITRONELLOL, EUGENOL, CITRAL, CI 77891 (TITANIUM DIOXIDE).

1- Palm oil and palm kernel oil were used as oil.
2- Glycerin appears by the reaction of pco with NaOH. I'm not sure if that's why glycerin was written in the formula or if it was written because glycerin was added as an extra. What do you think?
3- Idk what the hell is palm kernel acid. Does this substance also arise spontaneously as a result of the reaction or is it something added extra?
4- other things were obviously added to the mix as well.

 

[paradisi]

What do you like about it?

It appears to be a combo bar (decyl glucoside and palm kernel acid aren't used in true soap and glycerin rarely).

Everything after the decyl glucoside is either a fragrance component, a color, or a chelator.

 

[kernelacid]

What do you like about it?

It appears to be a combo bar (decyl glucoside and palm kernel acid aren't used in true soap and glycerin rarely).

Everything after the decyl glucoside is either a fragrance component, a color, or a chelator.

what is the function of palm kernel acid? i don't like natural, dry, non-lathering soaps. so i always use glycerin.

 

[paradisi]

I haven't used straight fatty acids in soaps so I couldn't say about this one. You might try looking it up on UL prospector.

As to 'dry, non lathering soaps', I'm not sure what you mean.

All handmade true soap has glycerin in it, it's created in the process. And too much glycerin if added, suppresses lather. Handmade true soap can lather very well, depends on the formula.

Realize too that any large scale commercial soap (you haven't mentioned a brand?) is not going to be made with processes home soapers use: industrial production is very different. Even if you secured those two ingredients you may not be able to recreate the feel of that soap.

 

[kernelacid]

I haven't used straight fatty acids in soaps so I couldn't say about this one. You might try looking it up on UL prospector.

As to 'dry, non lathering soaps', I'm not sure what you mean.

All handmade true soap has glycerin in it, it's created in the process. And too much glycerin if added, suppresses lather. Handmade true soap can lather very well, depends on the formula.

Realize too that any large scale commercial soap (you haven't mentioned a brand?) is not going to be made with processes home soapers use: industrial production is very different. Even if you secured those two ingredients you may not be able to recreate the feel of that soap.

I wanted to mention that I use glycerin as a stabilizer (along with others).
If it's not a secret, can you give me your favorite soap bar formula?

 

[paradisi]

I wanted to mention that I use glycerin as a stabilizer (along with others).
If it's not a secret, can you give me your favorite soap bar formula?

I don't share my formulas as soapmaking is my livelihood. But you can find loads of good starting formulas here.

 

[Tammyfarms]

If it's not a secret, can you give me your favorite soap bar formula?

There are a lot of really good recipes shared on this forum. I see you are from Turkey so I’m not sure what you have readily available or what your preferences are. My favorite recipe is 75% lard, 20% coconut oil and 5% castor oil. Sometimes I use 10-20% olive oil to replace some of the lard. I have never soaped with Palm Oil but I know many here have shared recipes.

 

[Quilter99755]

I found palm to be a little drying on my skin and went to lard as my main ingredient for most of my soaps...it is also easy to buy locally in most stores. Most of my recipes are close to @Tammyfarms but rarely over 15% coconut oil. My go-to substitution for replacing lard is rice bran oil...40% lard, 30% RBO, and the rest CO, castor and maybe a butter. Lots of Palm Oil recipes on the net and in this forum if you keep looking

 

[DeeAnna]

Commercial soaps are sometimes superfatted with one or more fatty acids (the palm kernel acid in this example) rather than fat. I don't think handcrafted soap makers do this much, but it's not impossible. One would have to use a hot-process soap making method to superfat with a fatty acid, however. Cold process won't work.

The way the ingredients list is written, the glycerin is a byproduct of saponifying the fats in the soap. I doubt it's added separately.

Natural glycerin from saponification is about 8% or so of the total weight in cured bar soap, so I don't see a lot of reason to add even more glycerin to bar soap -- it definitely doesn't "stabilize" anything.

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

@kernelacid, have you made soap for personal use before? Are you looking for a formula for cold process soap? There are also hot process methods. Most of us on SMF make a version of cold or hot process soap.

Commercial soaps are more often created with a continuous boiled method, which removes glycerin and produces soap without superfat. That may be why the label ingredients show those ingredients being added.

So if you are going to make a cold or hot process soap, there are enough recipes here and posted in the soap calculator to overwhelm you. Perhaps we can help you get started if you answer a couple of questions.

Why are you interested in making soap? What qualities are important to you in personal soap? (Mildness, cleansing, exfoliating, fun?) What oils and fats are easily available to you? Are animal fats acceptable to you, or do you want to use only plant oils?

Please give us a little guidance so we can send you down the soaping rabbit hole of recipes, YouTube videos, and pictures of our own soapy creations on SMF.

 

[DeeAnna]

The recipe is written using a "what comes out of the pot" method, which is why you see the INCI names for the soaps -- sodium palmitate, etc. For soap that contains glycerin naturally made by saponification, it's correct to list that too if using this method.

If the list used the "what goes into the pot" method, you'd see palm oil, the other fats, and sodium hydroxide listed, but no glycerin unless it was glycerin intentionally added to the pot in addition to the glycerin made during saponification.

Since OP hasn't told us what company made this particular soap, I don't think one can assume how it's made -- it could be made by continuous saponification, boiled process, cold process, hot process, etc.

There's also no way to know for sure whether the glycerin in this list is just from saponification or if more is added by the maker. There is only one clue to go on -- its position in the list below the fragrance but above the superfat (palm kernel acid). That looks about right for the glycerin to just be naturally produced glycerin. But it's not a sure thing, I'll agree.

 

[kernelacid]

firs of, thanks you all guys. I want to answer you all at once.

1- I want to produce soap for commercial purposes. For this purpose, I want to produce the most basic, cost-effective and "okayish" soap bar. I want to highlight the product with scents and essences. @ScentimentallyYours
2- The soap I shared is a high-end and quite expensive (35 $) Hermes soap and its content is the same as the soap I bought from the cheap store (50 cent). As far as I have noticed, all commercial soaps have the same content (thats why i tried to fully understand the ingredients of this product to produce the same) and customers are not very interested with content. my biggest expense will be for perfume.
3- @DeeAnna , So they wrote glycerin because it comes out while making soap. got it.
4- I can find all kinds of oils here but no one will buy a product made with lard. its "haram" you know. @Tammyfarms
5-What do you think about the formula below that targets high profit margins?
40% olive oil
20% sunflower oil
20% palm oil
20% coconut oil
or
80% olive oil
20% sunflower oil
(Since Turkiye is a Mediterranean country, everything related to olive oil is loved in here.)

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

@kernelacid, I think the high price tag on the Hermes soap works because of the brand name, not the specific soap base or even perfume. People pay an exorbitant amount because they believe the brand is higher quality than other soaps.

Regarding your recipes, how do you plan to manufacture your soap? Will you be using a cold process method? Hot process? Or some form of boiled/continuous process? How long do you plan to cure the soap before selling?

To avoid DOS (dreaded orange spots) be sure to use high oleic sunflower oil. If the sunflower oil isn’t labeled as HO, look for monounsaturated fat number of 11%. I also think you will run into trouble with the recipes you posted with hardening and longevity if you use a cold process method since they are very low in palmitic and/or stearic acids.

For a starting point in formulating an olive and sunflower oil soap recipe, check out the ZNSC recipe. Make it yourself and follow the instructions to the letter. After that, you can start to tweak the recipe with your own modifications. A number of us here on SMF went on to modified recipes to create bastile soap by adding a small percentage of coconut oil (5 - 15%) to help boost the lather. I see no reason why you could not substitute HO sunflower oil as a percentage of the olive oil when modifying the ZNSC recipe.

There are wiser minds than mine who may weigh in on this information. For now, however, I would love to see some of your own soap to know that you are serious about coming up with an excellent recipe.

 

[kernelacid]

@ScentimentallyYours , "I think the high price tag on the Hermes soap works because of the brand name, not the specific soap base or even perfume."
i agree with you. Since I don't have the reputation of Hermes, I will use perfume. to stand out.

im gonna use cold process method. I don't plan on a cure longer than a week.

I looked at ZNSC. With a proper calculation, I will reduce the proportion of olive oil and add sunflower oil. Do you think olive oil, sunflower oil and coconut oil are okay?

I don't want to come up with a perfect recipe. I want to come up with a basic and cheap recipe with as few defects as possible.

As I mentioned earlier, most commercial soaps, whether cheap or expensive, use palm oil and palm kernel oil. I think this is because it is the most cost-effective formula commercially. Is there a page on this site that applies this formula used in commercial soaps? I will either use my own sunflower recipe or this recipe.
I will upload my soaps later.

 

[AliOop]

I regularly make the ZNSC recipe with 20% coconut oil and the rest as olive oil. It is my friend's favorite soap, and I think you will like it. I also add goat milk powder for hers, but that isn't strictly necessary. The goat milk powder contains natural sugars, which help it lather better. You could use plain white sugar instead if you prefer.

I will say that although the soap is quite usable at one week, it lasts longer and is milder to the skin if you cure it at least four weeks. Also, hopefully you are planning to use a fragrance oil made for CP soap, and not an actual perfume. The alcohol in the perfume will cause your soap to seize.