First timer here...making seal oil soap

[newtonandpelle]

I have started soap making primarily because I have some seal oil I rendered down from blubber and wanted to use. In reading up on what seal oil can be used for I came across the idea of soap. Of course there is zero information about the SAP of seal blubber oil so it is going to be a matter of trial and probably error...although I have made 2 batches in a couple of days and they seemed to have turned out.
I came across a thread on this forum from 2014 where someone was in Alaska and bought some seal oil soap. There was interesting discussion by no relevant information to help in the process of making the soap with essentially an unknown oil.
A user of mink oil locally has expressed interest in the seal oil as a possibly somewhat comparable product although I have no idea what they use the mink oil for. So since none of the soap calculators have seal oil as an option I used mink oil as a substitute along with whatever other oils I had on hand to formulate a recipe with. I ended up using 33% coconut oil, 33% canola oil and 34% seal oil (put into the recipe as mink oil). I added a little lavender oil before pouring into the mould and some lavender flowers for decoration. I used 800g of oil in total which worked well as it fit into a loaf pan. It was cold process (warmish really) and had a good trace after about 10-15 minutes of mixing. I left the first batch in the mold for almost 48 hours (since I was away) and the cut it and racked it to dry. While it felt was a bit soft when I cut it, it was firm enough to slice and still maintain its solid shape. Pretty firm already after only a couple of days drying. Looking around the soap calculators more I found I could formulate a recipe using salmon oil. I am wondering of that might be closer in characteristics to seal oil...cant wait to see how it turns out. My second batch I substituted solid shortening for the canola oils as the calculators tell me the final product will he a harder bar of soap...can't wait to see how they turn out!

 

[cmzaha]

What I found for Seal oil would be KOH 0.192 and NaOH 0.136 taken from this chart for manufacturing varnish https://tinyurl.com/ssc38zt

 

[newtonandpelle]

What I found for Seal oil would be KOH 0.192 and NaOH 0.136 taken from this chart for manufacturing varnish https://tinyurl.com/ssc38zt

Did I mention first timer here?...I'm not even sure what that means. I used 115g of Lye and 304g of water to 800g of oil. That book is about making varnishes...not sure how that is connected to soap making? Any tips or further explanation/insights would be greatly appreciated.

 

[shunt2011]

Did I mention first timer here?...I'm not even sure what that means. I used 115g of Lye and 304g of water to 800g of oil. That book is about making varnishes...not sure how that is connected to soap making? Any tips or further explanation/insights would be greatly appreciated.

No, you didn't mention a first timers. You really need to do some work reading and learning about SAP values. It's really pertinent to what you asked. KOH is Potassium Hydroxide used to make liquid soap and NAOH is Sodium Hydroxide used to make bar soap. The SAP value is what the lye calculators use to calculate how much lye you need for a batch.

So, since your particular oil isn't listed, you'll need to go through the lye calculator and fine something that is similar in SAP value and then use that oil.

 

[artemis]

No, you didn't mention a first timer.

It's in the subject/thread title

 

[shunt2011]

It's in the subject/thread title

Duh on me....LOL

 

[cmzaha]

Yes, I did see the "First Timer", but when I was a first-timer I had already done my research and knew what Sap values meant, and how to use the information. I would especially have wanted to know this when using a rather exotic oil. At least I found you the information, and Shari told you what it is used for.
While your pick of Mink Oil was a good guess Soy Bean Oil would have been right on for the average Sap value.

 

[dixiedragon]

Here is a link to a chart of SAP values:
http://www.soap-making-resource.com/saponification-table.html

The sap value is how much lye it takes to turn the fat into soap. Since you are making bar soap, look at the NaOH column.

Looks like Avocado Oil is pretty dang close. I'd choose that option.

Unless you have an abundance in seal oil, I'd freeze that and make a few batches of regular soap with non-special ingredients. You'll cry if you end up having to chuck a whole batch in the garbage!

 

[cmzaha]

If using Soapcalc.net Soybean is 0.136 and starts with an S

 

[Nona'sFarm]

Fascinating! So I am just curious, what is the consistency of seal oil. Is it liquid or solid?

Everyone has given you great advice above. Have fun with this new soaping adventure.

 

[newtonandpelle]

No, you didn't mention a first timers. You really need to do some work reading and learning about SAP values. It's really pertinent to what you asked. KOH is Potassium Hydroxide used to make liquid soap and NAOH is Sodium Hydroxide used to make bar soap. The SAP value is what the lye calculators use to calculate how much lye you need for a batch.

So, since your particular oil isn't listed, you'll need to go through the lye calculator and fine something that is similar in SAP value and then use that oil.

I have done a fair bit of reading regarding SAP values and understand the difference between KOH and NAOH which is how I decided to make hard soap using Lye as opposed to liquid. Given that I couldn't find any information or SAP value for seal oil, I had nothing to compare it to in order to find a similar value for the calculators.

Fascinating! So I am just curious, what is the consistency of seal oil. Is it liquid or solid?

Everyone has given you great advice above. Have fun with this new soaping adventure.

I am pretty excited that the 2 batches I have had so far seem to have turned out...waiting for them to cure...impatiently

The seal oil is a golden amber colour about the consistency of cold canola oil maybe. The actual seal blubber never freezes or solidifies...even having been buried in snow for a month. I have noticed a little sedimentation in the bottom of some jars that have gotten colder so I would guess that maybe of I put the oil in the freezer it may solidify somewhat. When I figure out how to add pictures to my posts I will show you..

 

[Susie]

Your soap should turn out well.

I would not, however, be able to use that high of an amount of Coconut Oil (CO), as it would dry my skin. I would have cut that amount down to about 15% max. You may want to use a lye calculator to vary the amount of CO and try that recipe against your first bars after 4-6 weeks. I suggest Soapee.com.

 

[newtonandpelle]

Your soap should turn out well.

I would not, however, be able to use that high of an amount of Coconut Oil (CO), as it would dry my skin. I would have cut that amount down to about 15% max. You may want to use a lye calculator to vary the amount of CO and try that recipe against your first bars after 4-6 weeks. I suggest Soapee.com.

Good to know about the coconut oil. Like I said, I just made a recipe based on using the unknown seal oil and whatever else I found in the kitchen. For the second batch I substituted shortening for the canola oil to compare the hardness and a couple of other things (forget what they are without my recipes on hand to look) I will change things up as I go making notes and seeing how things turn out. All just a big adventure and my kitchen is my chemistry lab

 

[newtonandpelle]

Since making the first 2 batches of soap, I have since found a scientific journal entry which gives me a lot of information about different characteristics of seal oil including SAP value and a break down of the fatty acids. This oil was rendered a little differently than mine was but the result would probably be very similar. This document gave Seal oils the SAP value of 180 (presumably KOH). It also broke down the fatty acid composition as follows: {edited to compare found values for mink oil}
Seal Mink (SAP 0.1976 KOH, 0.140 NaOH)
Myristic (14:0) = 4.98% 3.2%
Palmitic (16:0) = 7.44% 15.7%
Palmitoleic (16:1) = 19.34% 14.6%
Oleic (18:1) = 27.34% 50.8%
Linoleic (18:2) = 2.9% 9.1%
Linolenic (18:3) = 1.3% 0.6%
Eicosanoic (20:1) = 13.64%
Eicosadienoic (20:2) = 4.39%
Eicosapentaenoic (20:5) = 6.3%
Erucic (22.1) = 2.02%
Docasapentaenoic (22:5) = 3.29%
Docosahexaenoic (22:6) = 7.05%
I do understand how some of these oils determine certain characteristics of the resulting soap but some of them are completely lost on me...more research required

 

[cmzaha]

If it were me I would use an average of the two Sap values and go with that. Sap would depend more on the type of Seal than the rendering process, I would think. Can you post a link for the document? Many of us here like links. I ran into this same issue when I used Camel fat and had to do a lot of research to come up with an average Sap value.

Still, I would not waste hard to get oil on experimenting, unless this is an easily acquired oil for you since I do realize seal harvesting is allowed in some countries. It would be better to get a base recipe using an oil such as sunflower, canola, OO, etc then sub in your seal oil. Like Susie, I used to never go over 15% CO but with a few years of tweaking, I am finding I can now use up to 18% CO in my recipes without it drying out my skin, and none of my customers have noticed the difference. I do still keep facial bars at 10-12% CO.

If you have the KOH Sap you can divide by 1.403 to get the NaOH Sap value. KOH is for liquid soap, NaOH is for bar soap and both can be referred to as lye. Usually in the forum folks do refer to NaOH as lye. KOH is Potassium Hydroxide and NaOH is Sodium Hydroxide which you probably already know by now.

 

[newtonandpelle]

If it were me I would use an average of the two Sap values and go with that. Sap would depend more on the type of Seal than the rendering process, I would think. Can you post a link for the document? Many of us here like links. I ran into this same issue when I used Camel fat and had to do a lot of research to come up with an average Sap value.

Still, I would not waste hard to get oil on experimenting, unless this is an easily acquired oil for you since I do realize seal harvesting is allowed in some countries. It would be better to get a base recipe using an oil such as sunflower, canola, OO, etc then sub in your seal oil. Like Susie, I used to never go over 15% CO but with a few years of tweaking, I am finding I can now use up to 18% CO in my recipes without it drying out my skin, and none of my customers have noticed the difference. I do still keep facial bars at 10-12% CO.

If you have the KOH Sap you can divide by 1.403 to get the NaOH Sap value. KOH is for liquid soap, NaOH is for bar soap and both can be referred to as lye. Usually in the forum folks do refer to NaOH as lye. KOH is Potassium Hydroxide and NaOH is Sodium Hydroxide which you probably already know by now.

Haha I can't seems to post a picture never mind a link!!

 

[Nona'sFarm]

Just a thought, you can add oils to the SoapMakingFriend calculator. I think you have enough information there to do that.

https://www.soapmakingfriend.com/soap-making-recipe-builder-lye-calculator/

 

[cmzaha]

Haha I can't seems to post a picture never mind a link!!

You can go up to the top of the page and click on the link button 7th button from the left and just paste in the copied url from the page you found the info or just type in the address in your post.

 

[cmzaha]

Just a thought, you can add oils to the SoapMakingFriend calculator. I think you have enough information there to do that.

https://www.soapmakingfriend.com/soap-making-recipe-builder-lye-calculator/

I would be a little careful with that one as it will tend to offend a lot of soapmakers. While we are a worldwide forum seal products are illegal in the US and I think possibly in Europe. Seals are protected in the US so I am sure some folks might be offended. I for one and being an offshore fisherperson have other thoughts on the subject. No, I am not trying to start any big long discussion about the use of any oil. Afterall I make camel fat soap.

 

[newtonandpelle]

I would be a little careful with that one as it will tend to offend a lot of soapmakers. While we are a worldwide forum seal products are illegal in the US and I think possibly in Europe. Seals are protected in the US so I am sure some folks might be offended. I for one and being an offshore fisherperson have other thoughts on the subject. No, I am not trying to start any big long discussion about the use of any oil. Afterall I make camel fat soap.

...And the camels give you that willingly?LOL I am not going to engage in an ethical debate about sources of oils for making soap. I have access to seal oil...so I will use it. I am sure someone from India would shudder at using tallow from a cow since they are sacred animals there...soap needs fat. We use what we have access to.