first Pine Tar soap

[Zing]

Hey soap peeps -- asking you to weigh in on my first pine tar soap. I don't like it! It is soft which I was expecting from posts here. The scent is also growing on me. But there is no lather, it feels slimy. I created the recipe from tips learned here and used most of my ingredients from my main recipe -- with the exception of avocado oil which I left out. Thank you!

 

[Misschief]

This is my recipe; it's been popular with some of my customers. I find that it lathers decently well (haven't used it in a while so my memory's not exactly fresh).

 

[Zany_in_CO]

The Hardness Value 39 and Iodine Value 50 indicate to me that it would be a hard soap BUT an INS Value of 123 tells me it's going to require a long cure to reach that level of hardness, more than the normal 4-6 weeks. With more time, you may be pleasantly surprised.

Personally, I would sub olive oil for RBO because it is known to cure hard.
Faux Sea Salt Water would help harden as well.
Shea Butter is nice but Cocoa Butter cures harder than Shea Butter IME.

Note: Because Pine Tar has no SAP value, it's like adding an unsaponified 15% SF to your soap.

HTH

 

[Zing]

This is my recipe; it's been popular with some of my customers. I find that it lathers decently well (haven't used it in a while so my memory's not exactly fresh).

View attachment 67077

Wow, that is generous of you to share and I appreciate it!

The Hardness Value 39 and Iodine Value 50 indicate to me that it would be a hard soap BUT an INS Value of 123 tells me it's going to require a long cure to reach that level of hardness, more than the normal 4-6 weeks. With more time, you may be pleasantly surprised.

Personally, I would sub olive oil for RBO because it is known to cure hard.
Faux Sea Salt Water would help harden as well.
Shea Butter is nice but Cocoa Butter cures harder than Shea Butter IME.

Note: Because Pine Tar has no SAP value, it's like adding an unsaponified 15% SF to your soap.
View attachment 67078


HTH

Thanks for the tips. *heavy sigh* okay, I'll wait more weeks before testing again.

Both you experts are recommending olive oil so that's enough for me. Thanks for the help!

 

[DeeAnna]

Another aspect of your recipe that hasn't been mentioned is it's pretty low in palmitic and stearic acids. These fatty acids reduce the water solubility of the soap as well as add hardness, both of which will increase the longevity. IMO, I'd look at increasing the combined percentage of these FAs to increase the hardness.

I realize raising the palmitic and stearic acids probably won't boost the lather, but if you increase these FAs by reducing the mono- and poly-unsaturated acid content (oleic + linoleic + linolenic), might reduce the slimy quality you don't care for.

Another thing to ponder is the idea that more pine tar isn't necessarily better. PT also has a slimy or oily nature too so reducing the % of PT might reduce that slimy quality as well. Many PT recipes contain 10% or less of PT. Even the highly touted commercial "Grandpa's" PT soap most likely has no more than 5% PT based on looking at the ingredients list.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

@DeeAnna What do you think? Will a longer cure help? From my calculations it's been 10 weeks.

@Zing Please correct me if that's wrong.

Thanks for the tips. *heavy sigh* okay, I'll wait more weeks before testing again.

I can totally relate to the "heavy sigh". Rather than waiting you might want to consider a rebatch using the Ciaglia Method. Should be interesting and may result in a bar more to your liking.

 

[Zing]

Another aspect of your recipe that hasn't been mentioned is it's pretty low in palmitic and stearic acids. These fatty acids reduce the water solubility of the soap as well as add hardness, both of which will increase the longevity. IMO, I'd look at increasing the combined percentage of these FAs to increase the hardness.

I realize raising the palmitic and stearic acids probably won't boost the lather, but if you increase these FAs by reducing the mono- and poly-unsaturated acid content (oleic + linoleic + linolenic), might reduce the slimy quality you don't care for.

Another thing to ponder is the idea that more pine tar isn't necessarily better. PT also has a slimy or oily nature too so reducing the % of PT might reduce that slimy quality as well. Many PT recipes contain 10% or less of PT. Even the highly touted commercial "Grandpa's" PT soap most likely has no more than 5% PT based on looking at the ingredients list.

Thank you for this, DeeAnna! Yeah, I think my next batch will have 10% pine tar. My research here and elsewhere had wide-ranging opinions on 10 to 20% so I went for the middle 15%.

I made a pine tar salve that is effective and fast-acting on my rash flare-ups so I had high hopes for the soap. Guess that's why it's called experimenting.

 

[AliOop]

Thank you for this, DeeAnna! Yeah, I think my next batch will have 10% pine tar. My research here and elsewhere had wide-ranging opinions on 10 to 20% so I went for the middle 15%.

I made a pine tar salve that is effective and fast-acting on my rash flare-ups so I had high hopes for the soap. Guess that's why it's called experimenting.

I really appreciate you sharing all this, @Zing. My tin of pine tar is waiting for me to make my first batch. I plan to have some for sale at my first craft fair in August, so now is the time to make it!

Based on your outcome, and DeeAnna’s advice, I’ll probably use tallow as my main oil, to achieve a harder bar. I also plan to follow Ellie’s Everday method for pine tar soap that is demonstrated on her YT channel.

Would you use the same EOs again? I’m still dithering over that and need to settle on something.

Edit: Someone here - maybe @Obsidian? - grated up their pine tar soap to make a confetti soap. Turned out pretty! That could be a way to repurpose yours into something you like better. EDIT 2: yes, it was in this thread.

 

[Zing]

I really appreciate you sharing all this, @Zing. My tin of pine tar is waiting for me to make my first batch. I plan to have some for sale at my first craft fair in August, so now is the time to make it!

Based on your outcome, and DeeAnna’s advice, I’ll probably use tallow as my main oil, to achieve a harder bar. I also plan to follow Ellie’s Everday method for pine tar soap that is demonstrated on her YT channel.

Would you use the same EOs again? I’m still dithering over that and need to settle on something.

Edit: Someone here - maybe @Obsidian? - grated up their pine tar soap to make a confetti soap. Turned out pretty! That could be a way to repurpose yours into something you like better. EDIT 2: yes, it was in this thread.

The scent is growing on me. I searched this forum for pine tar soap and essential oils and got some good ideas.
THANK YOU for reminding me about that beautiful confetti soap with pine tar shavings!

 

[Zing]

Alright, I'm at the 8 month mark and trying the second one of my pine tar soaps. It is HARD! Evidently that extra curing time thang works! Still wish for more bubbles, but it does smell good. Seriously, the wait is worth it. Last June, it was a slimy puddle of soap -- and now it's hard as a rock.

 

[CreativeWeirdo]

Things I learned today: Pine TAR is most definitely NOT Pine RESIN!

As someone who is very familiar with pine resin, and didn't even know "pine tar" was a thing, I was VERY confused when I saw those recipe measurements!

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I always looked at pine tar soaps as having a specific purpose rather than being a 'normal' soap with a generic additive, and as such the performance doesn't have to measure up to a 'normal' soap in areas like bubbles and lather and such. I think it's like getting in to something like a rally car and expecting a stereo and a cup holder - the car has a specific use and isn't a general run about for popping down to the shops