Does anyone else use soy wax and goat milk ?

[Basil]

I’ve tried to look at all all the threads and I’m not sure if I’m missing anything. Do any of you soapers combine goat milk with a soy wax recipe and if so , how much soy wax? I just was reading again , @Zany_in_CO post from Bunny and her recipe. I’ve read and gotten advice from @KiwiMoose , and last year went up to 15% soy. Then I backed down and started using butters. Then I went from 5, 7, 10 % soy wax. Now I’m going to take a leap and use 25% and see what happens. I’m going to try @math ace technique and use the stick blender in the morning ll and lye. Im going to use @KiwiMoose lingo and say “ hit me” with your responses! Am I crazy?? Also I apologize for all the goat milk talk- not that it’s better, but I have plenty here so it’s what I work with . Thanks in advance!

 

[Basil]

I’ve tried to look at all all the threads and I’m not sure if I’m missing anything. Do any of you soapers combine goat milk with a soy wax recipe and if so , how much soy wax? I just was reading again , @Zany_in_CO post from Bunny and her recipe. I’ve read and gotten advice from @KiwiMoose , and last year went up to 15% soy. Then I backed down and started using butters. Then I went from 5, 7, 10 % soy wax. Now I’m going to take a leap and use 25% and see what happens. I’m going to try @math ace technique and use the stick blender in the morning ll and lye. Im going to use @KiwiMoose lingo and say “ hit me” with your responses! Am I crazy?? Also I apologize for all the goat milk talk- not that it’s better, but I have plenty here so it’s what I work with . Thanks in advance!

ETA: I apologize, I meant @MullersLaneFarm regarding stick blender !

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Am I crazy??

The jury is still out on that. (insert 'tongue in cheek' emoji here.) In case you haven't noticed, this Forum functions as an asylum for many of its members. In that sense, you are in good company.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Do any of you soapers combine goat milk with a soy wax recipe and if so , how much soy wax?

I have done that, at 10%, but I'm not a big fan of soy wax in soap, or any waxes for that matter. I do believe it helps with scent retention. I'm not so sure that more than 10% would hold the scent better.

ETA:
I just calculated 100% Soy Wax to see what it brings to the soaping party... hardness and creamy lather. Hmm

 

[earlene]

It's been a long time (maybe 3 or 4 years) since I made a GM soap with soy wax. I think at that time I was using 30% SW, but it may have been less as I was using up end bits of oils so I could toss the bottles, so each recipe during that time was adjusted based on what I had on hand.

 

[KiwiMoose]

As you know I use 20% soy wax as standard in my recipes. I've never used goats milk, but I do use other milks ( oat, coconut).
Now that I've seen @Zany_in_CO 's post - I wonder If I need to experiment????????

 

[dibbles]

As you know I use 20% soy wax as standard in my recipes. I've never used goats milk, but I do use other milks ( oat, coconut).
Now that I've seen @Zany_in_CO 's post - I wonder If I need to experiment????????

If you do, use individual molds. I don't know how you could cut it otherwise. I think that would be one hard bar of soap!

 

[Basil]

I have done that, at 10%, but I'm not a big fan of soy wax in soap, or any waxes for that matter. I do believe it helps with scent retention. I'm not so sure that more than 10% would hold the scent better.

ETA:
I just calculated 100% Soy Wax to see what it brings to the soaping party... hardness and creamy lather. Hmm

View attachment 61354

That’s what Bunny’s post said!! Creamy lather? Hardness? Not drying? Sounds like a dream right? And I like the bars with soy wax , I just think it’s a bit more difficult to work with goats milk…but maybe I should just increase and find out

 

[Basil]

It's been a long time (maybe 3 or 4 years) since I made a GM soap with soy wax. I think at that time I was using 30% SW, but it may have been less as I was using up end bits of oils so I could toss the bottles, so each recipe during that time was adjusted based on what I had on hand.

Really??? Ok!!! And why did you stop using @earlene ?

 

[Basil]

I have done that, at 10%, but I'm not a big fan of soy wax in soap, or any waxes for that matter. I do believe it helps with scent retention. I'm not so sure that more than 10% would hold the scent better.

ETA:
I just calculated 100% Soy Wax to see what it brings to the soaping party... hardness and creamy lather. Hmm

View attachment 61354

What is the reason you don't like soy wax in soaps @Zany_in_CO , out of curiosity?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

What is the reason you don't like soy wax in soaps @Zany_in_CO , out of curiosity?

It isn't that I "don't like soy" as much as I don't think it adds anything significant to the formula that would make me want to use it on a regular basis. There are plenty of additives for soap that I'm drawn to but soy wax isn't one of them. I'm pretty much a "Plain Jane" soaper.

 

[earlene]

Really??? Ok!!! And why did you stop using @earlene ?

I didn't stop using soy wax, but I don't make GM soap much anymore because I didn't really notice a huge difference in the soap with GM as an additive.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

The “soy wax” many of us are using in soap is GW 415, which is hydrogenated soy bean oil, not a true wax. Based on what we know about it from the manufacturer, it is also not 87% stearic acid. The research I’ve done is summarized in this thread. I don’t make goat milk soap with my GW 415 recipe so I can’t comment on that aspect. My current recipe has 23% GW 415 and 11% cocoa butter. IMHO, GW415 makes very nice soap when the overall fatty acid profile for the recipe is adjusted to approximate the fatty acid profile in my lard recipe. When it comes to adding milk, the issue could be with soaping temperature. I soap the GW415 recipe warmer (115-120F) compared with my recipes that have lard, tallow or palm. I get false trace if I drop the starting temperature, but that may be because I mostly make small batches that tend to cool off fairly quickly.

 

[Basil]

The “soy wax” many of us are using in soap is GW 415, which is hydrogenated soy bean oil, not a true wax. Based on what we know about it from the manufacturer, it is also not 87% stearic acid. The research I’ve done is summarized in this thread. I don’t make goat milk soap with my GW 415 recipe so I can’t comment on that aspect. My current recipe has 23% GW 415 and 11% cocoa butter. IMHO, GW415 makes very nice soap when the overall fatty acid profile for the recipe is adjusted to approximate the fatty acid profile in my lard recipe. When it comes to adding milk, the issue could be with soaping temperature. I soap the GW415 recipe warmer (115-120F) compared with my recipes that have lard, tallow or palm. I get false trace if I drop the starting temperature, but that may be because I mostly make small batches that tend to cool off fairly quickly.

Thank you ! And to @Zany_in_CO , @earlene and @KiwiMoose . I have been using the 415 and did read your thread ! I’ve encountered the false trace before keeping my temp too low with the goat milk. I tried this yesterday using the recipe by Bunny that @Zany_in_CO provided and using 1/2 goat milk and 1/2 aloe Vera juice both frozen. I didn’t use a cold water bath . I stick blended the solution before pouring into the oils. It worked like a charm. I haven’t taken it out of the mold yet, but it stayed fairly ‘white’ so far. Little discoloration at the time of mixing. Today I’m going to tweak that recipe . I really like cocoa butter, so I’ll try that again . I’ll keep you all posted. I REALLY appreciate all your input. The swirls on top are a different color as I had a little extra and just colored with Mayan gold for the heck of it. It’s plain inside. Nothing extra added

 

[Mobjack Bay]

That color looks great. Just remember that when you’re using GW 415, the actual stearic + palmitic in the recipe is lower than what is shown by the soap calculator.

 

[Basil]

That color looks great. Just remember that when you’re using GW 415, the actual stearic + palmitic in the recipe is lower than what is shown by the soap calculator.

That makes sense. I’ll take your figures into account today when I tweak it. Thank you @Mobjack Bay

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I have company coming today, but when I get a chance, I will run the recipe above through the calculator using GW 415 as a custom oil.

Here’s the recipe calculated with GW 415 as a custom oil. Stearic + Palmitic 22% vs. 36%, oleic 41% vs. 27%, etc. compared with the recipe using “fully hydrogenated soybean oil”. The difference in the lye amount is minor, but the longevity is a lot less.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

My €0.02:

• (All this experience is not based on the glorious GW415 soy wax, but from the variant of canola wax that I'm using and that appears to be very similar in most respects. I still used the term “soy wax” to avoid botanical cluttering)
• I've found that 20% soy wax is the maximum above which a soap (ungelled) tends to develop a chalky, floury consistency and becomes brittle. I usually use 10–15% soy wax in conjunction with butters (mango, cocoa) and/or palmitic oils (palm, RBO, japan wax).
• In direct comparison to other (very) hard oils, it does perform on par. In retrospect, I should have added a “control” batch with a medium-hard oil like shea butter or lard, to have better comparison at the lower end of the spectrum. Take-away:
• I can only discourage actually performing the “experiment” of @Zany_in_CO (single-oil soap from hard soy wax). GW415 and friends are soft soy waxes, but like mentioned above, still bring agreeable hardness. Fully hydrogenated vegetable oils are strict HP ingredients. As in: Rapid, concrete-like false trace below some 60°C/140°F.

 

[Basil]

I have company coming today, but when I get a chance, I will run the recipe above through the calculator using GW 415 as a custom oil.

Thank you! I was going to try but I’m lousy at math and it will take me hours lol

 

[Zany_in_CO]

can only discourage actually performing the “experiment” of @Zany_in_CO (single-oil soap from hard soy wax).

I think I need to clarify my intent in posting that information...

I just calculated 100% Soy Wax to see what it brings to the soaping party... hardness and creamy lather.

...I meant to convey what Soy Wax brings to a bar soap formula -- if you need more hardness or creamy lather -- try it at whatever % you feel the formula needs. For example, if a formula INS Value is 145, one could add a little soy wax to raise the INS Value to 160 -- so-called "perfect" soap.

I hope that makes sense.