Does anybody here promote CP soap as shampoo?

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Zany, you might want to read a few of Holi's posts before apologizing to them...it's really hard to discern who started what or why the conversation even went where it did...but from my POV gentle education was met with a very combative attitude. Afterwards, there was a little back and forth where the tone was somewhat negative back...but they're not the victim they're making themselves out to be, especially after bringing up a hot-button issue like HP and cure.
Hi, zany.
Thank you but do not worry, it takes much more than anyone here was capable of to make ME a victim. For this reason I never considered myself as such. As I said before, identification of behavior does not equal emotional affectation. Statement of scientific facts requires scientific evidence to prove incorrect rather than group support of weak biases.
(This was the statement that ultimately got me banned) so if Im banned again. You will know why. I do also realize that you had been following all the posts from the beginning so you know the whole story. Nough said.
 
Statement of scientific facts requires scientific evidence to prove incorrect rather than group support of weak biases. (This was the statement that ultimately got me banned) so if Im banned again. You will know why.

What scientific evidence did you present for your HP claims? Unnamed "experts" whose credentials can't be examined isn't evidence. Since you've started back up on the subject again, it would appear that you're determined to be argumentative about it and just in general.

Hope
 
un perfumed Cp Soap is perfect for the hair. Keeping in mind that you are washing the hair and not scrubbing the scalp, as the scalp needs to produce oil. Shampoo strips the scalp of oil that’s why we need to use a conditioner… crazy ! Chemicals are left in the hair with the perfume!! Rinse rinse rinse with either ! And a touch of lemon juice in the water for soap if you have long hair !
 
I guess my opinion is based on, not having a dry itchy scalp and soft hair that shines. When I was growing up we never had shampoo and conditioner and my grandparents had a full head of hair at 90 lol
Interestingly, Permanent hair colouring products have a pH between 9.0–11.0 and are alkaline, water alone can have an 8 PH
 
I guess my opinion is based on, not having a dry itchy scalp and soft hair that shines. When I was growing up we never had shampoo and conditioner and my grandparents had a full head of hair at 90 lol
Interestingly, Permanent hair colouring products have a pH between 9.0–11.0 and are alkaline, water alone can have an 8 PH
Nobody perms their hair daily or even weekly, and perms use a lot of neutralizer each time and heavy after- conditioning.
 
Welcome.gif
I'm so glad you joined! It's good to have another member who uses soap as shampoo. Right on! There are so few of us that we get beat down fairly often. As a matter of fact, when I joined in 2017 the subject of "Soap as Shampoo" was banned!!! So, when I innocently posted a comment like yours, and attempted to defend my comment, I was banned for 2 weeks!!!

As a result, we have a large Syndet (Synthetic/Detergent) Shampoo Bar group that jump at every opportunity to discourage Newbies from using lye-based shampoo bars or liquid.

When I was growing up we never had shampoo and conditioner and my grandparents had a full head of hair at 90 lol
:thumbs: Same here! :nodding:
 
IMO, most CP soap has too high a pH to use on hair. The pH of hair is 4.5 to 5.5.
Also IMO, keeping in mind that hair is dead, and the pH of water is 7, once you lather up with a lye-based shampoo bar, or any bar of soap as I did for years, what hits the hair and scalp is neutral and isn't likely. to cause damage.

Also IMO, what does cause damage is not rinsing thoroughly, as @Lovebeingreal mentioned, preferably with increasingly cool water (or beer straight from the fridge), to get all the soap residue out. Following up with a rinse to restore the acid mantle of the scalp leaves the hair soft, manageable and shiny. :nodding:

EVERYTHING TO KNOW ABOUT NATURAL SHAMPOO BARS

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/shampoo-bar-video-tutorial.82908/HAPPY SOAPING! :computerbath:
 
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Nobody perms their hair daily or even weekly, and perms use a lot of neutralizer each time and heavy after- conditioning.
I should hope not lol ! hair colouring and perms probably do more damage to the hair over time than a little watered down CP soap bar. I guess using natural conditioners like lemon or Apple cider vinegar is the key. But…… “whatever works for you “
 
Zany_in_Co knows me well. I use CP soap as shampoo since 2015. I have had others try it and they have the same results as I did, nice clean hair - soft and full. I do have them follow up with an acid rinse or a hair conditioner bar that I make. One Nurse asked me if it would be good for her dreads, seems it is better than all those products for People of Color. My research group finds they can go longer between shampoos, and that their hair has more body.

I have, just a few months ago, completed my cancer journey. My hair is growing back very fast, and is thick and lustrous. I am sold on the AVO that I used in both the shampoo and conditioner bars.
 
This is only 'my' opinion but syndet and combars--commercial cleansers or 'soap' loosely used--are relatively new in terms of washing the body of oily, sweaty dirt and grim. Traditional soap (REAL soap) has been used for thousands of years--as far back as 2800 B.C. in ancient Babylon. Even though commercial 'soap' (loosely speaking) has taken off (bar form 1st and then in liquid form) and has taken over sales of traditional (real) soap, that doesn't make it better suited for skin. IMHO, it does not. Detergents were created as a response to a shortage of fats to make soap (Germany) during WWI. History of Detergents,Detergents History,Chemistry of Soap Making "By the year 1953, the sale of detergents in US had surpassed those of soap. During that time, the detergents have all but replaced soap-based products that were used for laundering, dishwashing and household cleaning. Alone or in combination with soaps, the use of detergents started in many of the bars and liquids used for personal cleaning."

Before the invention of detergents, soap was used for laundry, body, etc. This relatively new thing (detergent) is sold as body cleansers AND shampoo but they do such a great job at cleaning oils that they rob me of my natural oils and dry me out. They lather better in various conditions (pH and heavy water) where soap struggles/cannot but I'd rather use soap, thank you.

Not meaning this to be snotty....but....., "If traditional soap were suitable for skin, why did they create detergent bars for cleaning the skin?"

We (this side of 1953) aren't as familiar with traditional soap and the blessing it is to skin unless we make it or have purchased quality real soap. We have nothing to compare it with since we've grown up using syndet / combars. My husband couldn't quit commenting on the difference between my handmade soap and the storebought stuff--he threw all of his storebought soaps away once he used my first soap twice.

My friends, some of them, started making HP soap after receiving soap as gifts from me, not ever wanting to return to drying storebought stuff themselves.

I almost hesitate to state but I have used my shampoo bars for 3 years and those I've gifted them to like them better than shampoo from stores. I make my own hair conditioner with a pH of 5 so I use that after washing as shampoo bars are higher than hair's natural pH (lower even than our skin's pH). Hair's pH must be brought back down to its natural pH or very close to 5 or it leaves hair vulnerable to damage. Hair's cuticles become raised when hair comes into contact with higher pH and they cannot close on their own, thus the conditioner with a pH of 5. My cosmetologist daughter in law, after gifting my son beer shampoo bars for his 24" beard, and after being the only one who touches my hair for over 4 years told me that if she didn't color her hair frequently for her job (uses temporary color) she wouldn't be afraid of my shampoo bars. She's seen my hair over the course of using both shampoo (storebought) and mine (handmade) and couldn't believe my colors aren't being washed out, especially the reds I had her put in a couple of years ago. I had highlights, lowlights, red and chocolate brown. I don't often color my hair but I went for 4 colors when she did it last. If I'm out of my conditioner, I use an ACV/water rinse until I make more. I do love my conditioner. My son (married to the cosmetologist) told me that in using only the beer shampoo bar and my hair conditioner he noticed improvements in the condition of his beard; it was dry and lifeless due to the extreme length.

I know many caution against shampoo bars due to the pH. Oh, one more thing, I have a cousin who has very oily hair and has seen the same hairdresser (she called her) for decades. Her stylest asked her what she was doing differently because her hair looked much better, was growing faster and seemed in better shape. My cousin told her about my gifting her shampoo and she was able to go a few days in between washes when (since we were kids) have had to wash it daily. That's detergents for you--rob our skin (hair) of natural oils so the skin (hair) is in overdrive trying to keep up with production so it gets greasy----->overproduces to keep up with the detergent wiping out the natural oils.

I guess the cat's out of the bag .......... I make and use shampoo bars


I'm glad I'm not the only one and I've not really wanted to state that I make and use them:D because I understand why others caution against the use of them. Over the years and many soap gifts, my daughter in law is a good person to go to for hair care. I picked her brain just a few months ago and asked her some very pointed questions. Her answers were spot on with what I had concluded with all the research I've done before making them and continue to read and research. While I make and use them, that doesn't mean others (friends and family) will have good success with them. I had been holding my tongue regarding the making and useage of them......now cat's out of the bag.
:lol:


@Michele50 what great historical information on the evolution of the soap/ shampoo industry!
 
This post about using soap to wash your hair has been pretty interesting and informative. I started reading it from the end because that's how it appeared in my email box. At some point, I went to the beginning because it was clear I had missed something. But, even before reading Michele50's historical post, I thought "Doesn't it matter what the soap is made out of?"

I have traveled in some poor and/or undeveloped areas in Mexico. My first experience was at age 7. We visited my paternal grandmother and other relatives. I remember taking a shower and being a little surprised that I had to use a bar of soap to wash my hair. In my early twenties, I twice visited relatives in remote areas of Mexico and again, used soap to wash my hair because that's what they used. I recall they used the same kind of soap to scrub their clothes in a tub with a washboard. By my late 20's, I had wised up and started packing shampoo and conditioner

I have to say, I don't recall anyone's hair looking beat up or unhealthy. The bars of soap looked pretty ordinary. I assume that, over time, they found soap that worked for them. I suspect they probably didn't wash their hair daily (as some say you shouldn't do) and that their body had a chance to naturally replenish their hair/ scalp? oils. That doesn't mean that some people may not have had drier scalps or less lustrous hair than others, but if all soap caused ill effects, everyone in the town would have been bald or had funky broken off hair. So, Michele50's soap history makes sense to me. Shampoo is probably a pretty new phenomenon.

I like lathering up with shampoo, and I always use a conditioner because my hair isn't as shiny as it was when I was younger. Even though I don't plan on switching to shampoo bars, it makes sense to me that certain cold process shampoo bars work fine for alot of people. It' just processed oil !!!

My younger son has lived and worked in some pretty remote areas in Central and South America. Based on what he told me they ate -- too gross to say on this forum -- I'm pretty sure they didn't have shampoo. But, out of curiosity, I'm going to ask him. I've seen some photos of him with the locals he worked with, their hair looked fine. But, I'm going to ask him about health issues, too.

Who would have thunk that this soap forum would have such lively exchanges ......
 
Random thought - my youngest has used a tar based shampoo since he was three (when he was diagnosed with psoriasis).

His shampoo seems incredibly drying and I wonder where it would land in this debate.
 
my youngest has used a tar based shampoo since he was three (when he was diagnosed with psoriasis).
That's tough. :( Both psoriasis and eczema are hard to treat with soap. Long ago my dermatologist recommended Aleppo Soap (Oiive Oil + Laurel Oil) for my sensitive skin that couldn't tolerate "normal" soap.

ETA: Another option that you might try is Polysorbate 80. It's incredibly mild and rinses clean without stripping the hair. It's a little tricky to work with but does a nice job. I use it between shampoos or as a clarifier to get all the product out before shampooing. I know a couple of soapers that tried it on their grandchildren that had severe skin issues and it worked for them
 
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Random thought - my youngest has used a tar based shampoo since he was three (when he was diagnosed with psoriasis).

His shampoo seems incredibly drying and I wonder where it would land in this debate.
Well, you could make a test batch of Pine Tar and see how it works with his skin condition. I do support the rinse agents {ACV & water}, so he can get all the scum out after shampooing.
 
Thank you for the advice @Zany_in_CO and @Kiti Williams.

I’ve been thinking of maybe trying a regular shampoo for him but a small percentage coal tar kept psoriasis out of his scalp and ears for many years and I don’t want to mess with what works no matter how terrible it smells!

Pine tar is not a known treatment for psoriasis, which is shame since I bet pine tar smells much better than coal tar!

It’s definitely not gentle, but his scalp doesn’t get those thick psoriasis scales when he uses the tar based shampoo. It also works to keep psoriasis out of his ears and out of his hairline.

I believe the point is to keep some of the coal tar residue there, so there is no rinse off agent.

Edit- the coal tar isn’t really about ph. For all I know they can ph balance it. This thread just prompted me to think about it since it’s definitely an atypical hair wash choice! But the hair itself isn’t really the target of any of the coal tar, it’s skin of his scalp, ears, and hairline.
 
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I guess my opinion is based on, not having a dry itchy scalp and soft hair that shines. When I was growing up we never had shampoo and conditioner and my grandparents had a full head of hair at 90 lol
Interestingly, Permanent hair colouring products have a pH between 9.0–11.0 and are alkaline, water alone can have an 8 PH
And that is exactly Why permanent hair color can damage hair. The purpose of the high ph is to open up the cuticle of the hair shaft so the color will deposit and use developers. The high ph of soap also opens up the cuticle so you should at the very least follow up with a vinegar rinse. During my years in the business, I saw a lot of hair damage due to soap and my mom who worked after the war years really saw a lot of hair damage due to folks using soap. Shampoo was hard to come by after the war. She told me even in the first shop she worked in they had very watered harsh shampoo to work it.

No matter what the few that have success with soap as shampoo say it is a high risk for damage to hair especially long beautiful hair that has taken years to grow. As for cleaning the scalp, it is great, at one time I had a customer whose doctor prescribed Tide to be used for her psoriasis. He was actually a very well-known dermatologist in our city, although a tad eccentric. I actually used it doing my best to keep it to her scalp and it actually did keep her psoriasis under control although not eradicated. I would follow up with a dandruff shampoo on her hair. Pesky job but it worked. No, I am not at all recommending this method.
 
And that is exactly Why permanent hair color can damage hair. The purpose of the high ph is to open up the cuticle of the hair shaft so the color will deposit and use developers. The high ph of soap also opens up the cuticle so you should at the very least follow up with a vinegar rinse. During my years in the business, I saw a lot of hair damage due to soap and my mom who worked after the war years really saw a lot of hair damage due to folks using soap. Shampoo was hard to come by after the war. She told me even in the first shop she worked in they had very watered harsh shampoo to work it.

No matter what the few that have success with soap as shampoo say it is a high risk for damage to hair especially long beautiful hair that has taken years to grow. As for cleaning the scalp, it is great, at one time I had a customer whose doctor prescribed Tide to be used for her psoriasis. He was actually a very well-known dermatologist in our city, although a tad eccentric. I actually used it doing my best to keep it to her scalp and it actually did keep her psoriasis under control although not eradicated. I would follow up with a dandruff shampoo on her hair. Pesky job but it worked. No, I am not at all recommending this method.
Wow - I never heard of tide. Bleach bath (didn’t make a difference, but it before seem to help people with eczema from what I heard) and coal tar were the first remedies we tried since they are over the counter. Bleach bath ends up being similar to the chlorine in pools, but was still surprising to hear from a doctor for a three year old.

But none of this is really about cleansing the skin. Especially coal tar. People hypothesize that the coal tar acts as either a sun sensitizer (Vitamin D cream is another common treatment choice before steroids) or it slows down DNA replication (plaque psoriasis is essentially an autoimmune reaction where the keratinocytes rapids divide - plaques form from extra skin layers). Whatever works in coal tar isn’t in line or shale (oil) tars.
 
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