Does anybody here promote CP soap as shampoo?

[Michele50]

Bar soap isn't crawling with bacteria
...

It does have bacteria but from the mouths of EXPERTS, it's our own bacteria and nothing to fret about.

https://www.self.com/story/bar-soap-sanitary-or-germy
"The bulk of germs on your bar soap are probably from your own skin, Tatyana Petukhova, M.D., a dermatologist at Weill Cornell Medicine and NewYork-Presbyterian, tells SELF....It’s estimated that about half the cells in the human body are bacteria, and a lot of those live upon your skin, helping to make up what’s known as your skin microbiome. Other microorganisms like fungi are also part of this environment. Your skin’s microbiome is essential to your immune system as it helps protect you from invading pathogens. So, it’s not a big deal to deposit microorganisms from your skin onto your soap, then back onto your skin....." I will believe MDs, clinical professor of microbiology, multiple Ph. Ds, dermatologists and the CDC over an individual peddling product.

You know @Primrose there are people in this world with an agenda, unlike those who really have a concern for fellow soapers for using shampoo bars or not using the proper equipment when making soap (goggles, gloves, etc). I think there is an agenda here---->to promote a product as the only safe and terrific thing for hair and maybe skin. When researching ANYTHING I always look for agendas because they will usually taint the position taken. I read both sides of things to get a good overall understanding of it whatever 'it' might be. There is an agenda here, to promote and hopefully sell to us a product that is supposed to be cutting edge; I'm certain it has a hefty price tag. Any product that is vague/will not list ingredients and is pushed/promoted with little detail, that's when my spidey senses kick in. I'd use my crude pioneer soap over anything unknown; at least I know the only thing in my crude liquidy soap was hardwood ash in distilled water and lard.

My personal opinion, using a discussion in this forum full of kindhearted and helpful folk with the agenda to sneakily sell something or push its sales for the salon is just wrong. This is a sharing of info site where many come to ask the help of others more experienced, not a marketplace.

Bar soap isn't crawling with bacteria
...

My husband laughs at me often; apparently I'm quite hilarious. The reason being is that I go to search one thing and I branch out to a half a dozen other topics. In my own defense, they really are related! When I was looking into the best beard brush and to purchase for my son's 24" beard I ended up reading so much material (20 sites) on how wood is processed and all about how wood is stronger when it's cut at certain angles. He is knowledgeable, kind of a jack of all trades, so I started some things and asked him if I understood these things correctly. The good news was that I properly processed the info for which I was unfamiliar. He asked what in the world was I reading about wood, he was very confused. Construction of wooden beard combs, particularly the longer ones, is very important. If I bought that one for my son I wanted to purchase a well-constructed long comb.

@Auxotroph 's comment about bateria ridden soap (syndet and/cp), lol, I had already researched this years ago. The above site mentioned is full of info from specialists and only one of many sites I visited. That's why I asked if he/she was a dermatologist or cosmetologist, those kinds of professionals I would be more inclined to listen to over a layman. I'm not a specialist by any means but I don't consider myself a layman either, well, maybe an informed layman. I've done nothing but reading these past 4-5 years since retiring; I finally have the time.

I've never hear of shampoo butter? I assume its a detergent based creamy product?

I don't want your formula, just a basic description of it.

Apparently what we are finding online that is also called shampoo butter isn't what @Auxotroph is alluding to. You know @Obsidian , I thought there was an agenda to sell a 'new' 'cutting-edge' product here--100% natural shampoo butter--but that could be absolutely wrong. Maybe someone is offering "Big opportunities for people here" to us for investing in it, lol. I can't quite figure it out; I don't think this is really an information-seeking thing that's going on.

Just had a quick look online and there is a lot of commercially made shampoo butter but basically zero hand made natural stuff.

I am sorry that I can't give you the formulation.

If you can formulate a freezer stable shampoo butter, you will be likely to make a lot of money

Big opportunitie for people here.

 

[Auxotroph]

It does have bacteria but from the mouths of EXPERTS, it's our own bacteria and nothing to fret about.

https://www.self.com/story/bar-soap-sanitary-or-germy
"The bulk of germs on your bar soap are probably from your own skin, Tatyana Petukhova, M.D., a dermatologist at Weill Cornell Medicine and NewYork-Presbyterian, tells SELF....It’s estimated that about half the cells in the human body are bacteria, and a lot of those live upon your skin, helping to make up what’s known as your skin microbiome. Other microorganisms like fungi are also part of this environment. Your skin’s microbiome is essential to your immune system as it helps protect you from invading pathogens. So, it’s not a big deal to deposit microorganisms from your skin onto your soap, then back onto your skin....." I will believe MDs, clinical professor of microbiology, multiple Ph. Ds, dermatologists and the CDC over an individual peddling product.

You know @Primrose there are people in this world with an agenda, unlike those who really have a concern for fellow soapers for using shampoo bars or not using the proper equipment when making soap (goggles, gloves, etc). I think there is an agenda here---->to promote a product as the only safe and terrific thing for hair and maybe skin. When researching ANYTHING I always look for agendas because they will usually taint the position taken. I read both sides of things to get a good overall understanding of it whatever 'it' might be. There is an agenda here, to promote and hopefully sell to us a product that is supposed to be cutting edge; I'm certain it has a hefty price tag. Any product that is vague/will not list ingredients and is pushed/promoted with little detail, that's when my spidey senses kick in. I'd use my crude pioneer soap over anything unknown; at least I know the only thing in my crude liquidy soap was hardwood ash in distilled water and lard.

My personal opinion, using a discussion in this forum full of kindhearted and helpful folk with the agenda to sneakily sell something or push its sales for the salon is just wrong. This is a sharing of info site where many come to ask the help of others more experienced, not a marketplace.


My husband laughs at me often; apparently I'm quite hilarious. The reason being is that I go to search one thing and I branch out to a half a dozen other topics. In my own defense, they really are related! When I was looking into the best beard brush and to purchase for my son's 24" beard I ended up reading so much material (20 sites) on how wood is processed and all about how wood is stronger when it's cut at certain angles. He is knowledgeable, kind of a jack of all trades, so I started some things and asked him if I understood these things correctly. The good news was that I properly processed the info for which I was unfamiliar. He asked what in the world was I reading about wood, he was very confused. Construction of wooden beard combs, particularly the longer ones, is very important. If I bought that one for my son I wanted to purchase a well-constructed long comb.

@Auxotroph 's comment about bateria ridden soap (syndet and/cp), lol, I had already researched this years ago. The above site mentioned is full of info from specialists and only one of many sites I visited. That's why I asked if he/she was a dermatologist or cosmetologist, those kinds of professionals I would be more inclined to listen to over a layman. I'm not a specialist by any means but I don't consider myself a layman either, well, maybe an informed layman. I've done nothing but reading these past 4-5 years since retiring; I finally have the time.



Apparently what we are finding online that is also called shampoo butter isn't what @Auxotroph is alluding to. You know @Obsidian , I thought there was an agenda to sell a 'new' 'cutting-edge' product here--100% natural shampoo butter--but that could be absolutely wrong. Maybe someone is offering "Big opportunities for people here" to us for investing in it, lol. I can't quite figure it out; I don't think this is really an information-seeking thing that's going on.

I am not trying to sell anything, I am just pointing out a huge gap in the otherwise saturated market of handmade beuty products.

I am also a microbiologist and have tested in the laboratory bacteria formation on used soap and let me tell you, it is not the pretty picture that you are painting. That is why they always advise immunocompromised people to always use liquid soap and shower gels.

You are right though, there is lots of bacteria in the human body, but there is also lots of bacteria living in the shower. If you saw what I have seen living on soap, I doubt that you would ever use it again.

 

[beckster51]

Let's just get off the bacteria wagon, shall we? I am a nurse, and there is bacteria on _everything_ unless it has been sterilized. There have been outbreaks of infections in hospitals from liquid soap dispensers including antibacterial soaps, so there is no product, unless sterilized, that does not have bacteria all over it. It is just a matter of whether or not it is friendly bacteria or not.

 

[mommycarlson]

I'm one of the few who uses my own CP soap for shampoo. It's a different recipe than my regular soap, not that it matters, it's still CP soap. I have a very short pixie haircut and my hair is gray. I've been using my own shampoo bars for 5 years now with no issues. BUT I believe it's because my hair is super short. I would not recommend to anyone with longer hair. Hubs also uses my shampoo bars.

ETA: in the winter months I do not wash my hair daily, but every other day. In the summer months I wash it daily as I am a cyclist and it gets really sweaty. Gross, I know lol but thought it was important to note

 

[dixiedragon]

I think Auxotroph is trolling us. Even if he/she doesn't want to share the exact process or recipe, they will have to include a list of ingredients on the packaging so no reason not to share the ingredients here.

 

[GML]

I think Auxotroph is trolling us. Even if he/she doesn't want to share the exact process or recipe, they will have to include a list of ingredients on the packaging so no reason not to share the ingredients here.

It's super secret okay!!!!!

 

[Kiti Williams]

No, I have a body soap for my bod![/QUOTE]

What's the difference?[/QUOTE]


I put in Cocoa Butter and a bit of Shea butter in my body bars. Avocado Oil is for the hair shaft, hydrating it and feeding the scalp.

 

[MGM]

I think Auxotroph is trolling us. Even if he/she doesn't want to share the exact process or recipe, they will have to include a list of ingredients on the packaging so no reason not to share the ingredients here.

@dixiedragon You're not listening! They need it to be freezer-stable so they can go plastics-free. There will be no packaging! Unless you count the freezer as packaging....what does the EPA say about how you list your ingredients on a freezer? @KiwiMoose probably knows.
At least you could use a really big font....

 

[Zany_in_CO]

At least you could use a really big font....

 

[Auxotroph]

I think Auxotroph is trolling us. Even if he/she doesn't want to share the exact process or recipe, they will have to include a list of ingredients on the packaging so no reason not to share the ingredients here.

There are no regulations like that in New Zealand. We don't need insurance or anything to sell soap or personal care products. The only rules we have is that you can't make claims that it is a cure to something. Like we can't say that this soap cures itchy skin kind of thing.

I am not trolling, I just think that it is really sad that people promote soap as shampoo when it really isn't.

 

[LilyJo]

Weird, I've just read the EPA standards on cosmetics and that wasn't my take on labelling at all. Be interested to hear from some of our other Aus and NZ members on what they do for labelling.

Btw, dont forget if your shampoo butter is so revolutionary you will end up selling it outside of NZ and would gave to comply with local testing and labelling laws anyway!

 

[Auxotroph]

Weird, I've just read the EPA standards on cosmetics and that wasn't my take on labelling at all. Be interested to hear from some of our other Aus and NZ members on what they do for labelling.

Btw, dont forget if your shampoo butter is so revolutionary you will end up selling it outside of NZ and would gave to comply with local testing and labelling laws anyway!

All the ingredients are FDA approved.

1000 units have been sold outside of New Zealand.

1000 units at 49$ per unit.

 

[Obsidian]

I am not trolling, I just think that it is really sad that people promote soap as shampoo when it really isn't.

You do realize that people buying the shampoo bars are aware its not real shampoo?
Thats why many use it, to get away from synthetic detergents.

If people want to use soap on their hair, more power to them. I'll warn people of the possible risks but won't try and change their minds.

If your products is selling so well, why are you so bent out of shape about shampoo bars?

 

[Michele50]

I am not trying to sell anything, I am just pointing out a huge gap in the otherwise saturated market of handmade beuty products.

I am also a microbiologist and have tested in the laboratory bacteria formation on used soap and let me tell you, it is not the pretty picture that you are painting. That is why they always advise immunocompromised people to always use liquid soap and shower gels.

You are right though, there is lots of bacteria in the human body, but there is also lots of bacteria living in the shower. If you saw what I have seen living on soap, I doubt that you would ever use it again.

@Auxotroph I’m glad to know you’re a microbiologist; I had inquired about your field of study earlier but received no response—thanks for the info.

You’re preaching to the choir regarding bacteria on bar cleansers/soap. 20 yrs ago I switched all syndet bars in our large childcare learning center (shortly after it’s purchased) to liquid cleanser dispensers for that very reason. At home, only DH used bars in shower (I used my liquid shampoo) & he preferred to continue; however, all sinks were switched from bars to liquid dispensers (automatic kind) to prevent germ transference from hands to dispenser & to another person’s hand. I’m really NOT germophobic, let’s just say I’m very aware/want to stay healthy/don’t trust that others properly wash after toileting/& don’t want their nasty germs on my hands. Furthermore, the 1st thing I do when I arrive home after shopping is to thoroughly wash because I’ve picked up many germs from others (ick). Germophobic? No. Wise? Yes.

I’ve since come full circle—back to bars. Why? Especially being aware of the mass number of germs on bars??

· If I fixated on the germs that exist in the mouth, I’d never kiss my DH; shoot, I’d not even hold hands because of the # of germs on “him”

· If I fixated on the germs living on fruits/veggies that others have touched at the store with their improperly or ‘not’ washed hands, I’d never buy & eat them

· Cell phones are full of them too, do I quit using mine?? It gets recontaminated quickly after sanitizing

· Oh my gosh, don’t get me started on household bathrooms!! Years ago, I trained my DH to close the lid b/4 he flushes to prevent germs from raising upward & be deposited on toothbrushes & other surfaces. With the VAST # of germs in our bathroom (despite frequent cleaning/sanitizing/etc) do I evacuate & call Hazmat? Of course not, I take preventative measures instead.

I don’t live in a stainless-steel bubble with a can of the best sanitizing spray. Living in the real world, germ-filled as it is, how do I prevent illness? Educate myself, carefully process the varied info I’ve taken in, & be vigilant in prevention where all is concerned.

Everything has two sides—don’t because of x, y, & z and then go ahead, it’s okay. I’m not taking anything away from your field of study, but there’s an opposing point of view from MDs, “other” microbiologists, the CDC, multiple Ph. Ds, dermatologists, & clinical professors of microbiology in just that one site I linked in my post. Some study germs, improve sterilization procedures and/or develop new drugs to combat infectious diseases (like you & those microbiologists in the material sited), some treat illnesses from germs (dermatologists & MDs), some work to prevent the spread of illnesses/diseases (the CDC), & some have a boatload of knowledge (Ph. Ds in Biology & Public Health). I read—eat & breathe it, so to speak—then weigh all that I’ve read & couple that with prevention (as found in previous post’s link). That one site (& there were many more I read) explains that we can stay healthy even if we choose to keep using bars of syndet/soap; we don’t have to sacrifice what we like & switch to liquid cleansers. The site also covered those you mentioned—the immunocompromised: “Also, if you’re immunocompromised for any reason and can’t fight back against a disease-causing invader, Dr. Petukhova says you’re at a higher risk of infection even from your own skin flora.” Can these people slip out of their skin to prevent infecting themselves and becoming ill? Most assuredly not; they have to then become vigilant on what they ‘can’ do to help themselves. Oh, no pretty picture do I paint, just stating (or siting) facts from a whole slue of experts from a myriad of fields of study.

It’s good that the use of this forum wasn’t to sell or gain investors for the product you mentioned in name only; however, if you joined this soaping forum in hopes to convert soap makers to liquid cleansers/liquid soap, I don’t see that happening. I’ll end with another quote, “Even when it comes to other bacteria your bar soap may pick up, the U.S. National Library of Medicine notes that less than 1 percent of bacteria make people sick.”

 

[Auxotroph]

@Auxotroph I’m glad to know you’re a microbiologist; I had inquired about your field of study earlier but received no response—thanks for the info.

You’re preaching to the choir regarding bacteria on bar cleansers/soap. 20 yrs ago I switched all syndet bars in our large childcare learning center (shortly after it’s purchased) to liquid cleanser dispensers for that very reason. At home, only DH used bars in shower (I used my liquid shampoo) & he preferred to continue; however, all sinks were switched from bars to liquid dispensers (automatic kind) to prevent germ transference from hands to dispenser & to another person’s hand. I’m really NOT germophobic, let’s just say I’m very aware/want to stay healthy/don’t trust that others properly wash after toileting/& don’t want their nasty germs on my hands. Furthermore, the 1st thing I do when I arrive home after shopping is to thoroughly wash because I’ve picked up many germs from others (ick). Germophobic? No. Wise? Yes.

I’ve since come full circle—back to bars. Why? Especially being aware of the mass number of germs on bars??

· If I fixated on the germs that exist in the mouth, I’d never kiss my DH; shoot, I’d not even hold hands because of the # of germs on “him”

· If I fixated on the germs living on fruits/veggies that others have touched at the store with their improperly or ‘not’ washed hands, I’d never buy & eat them

· Cell phones are full of them too, do I quit using mine?? It gets recontaminated quickly after sanitizing

· Oh my gosh, don’t get me started on household bathrooms!! Years ago, I trained my DH to close the lid b/4 he flushes to prevent germs from raising upward & be deposited on toothbrushes & other surfaces. With the VAST # of germs in our bathroom (despite frequent cleaning/sanitizing/etc) do I evacuate & call Hazmat? Of course not, I take preventative measures instead.

I don’t live in a stainless-steel bubble with a can of the best sanitizing spray. Living in the real world, germ-filled as it is, how do I prevent illness? Educate myself, carefully process the varied info I’ve taken in, & be vigilant in prevention where all is concerned.

Everything has two sides—don’t because of x, y, & z and then go ahead, it’s okay. I’m not taking anything away from your field of study, but there’s an opposing point of view from MDs, “other” microbiologists, the CDC, multiple Ph. Ds, dermatologists, & clinical professors of microbiology in just that one site I linked in my post. Some study germs, improve sterilization procedures and/or develop new drugs to combat infectious diseases (like you & those microbiologists in the material sited), some treat illnesses from germs (dermatologists & MDs), some work to prevent the spread of illnesses/diseases (the CDC), & some have a boatload of knowledge (Ph. Ds in Biology & Public Health). I read—eat & breathe it, so to speak—then weigh all that I’ve read & couple that with prevention (as found in previous post’s link). That one site (& there were many more I read) explains that we can stay healthy even if we choose to keep using bars of syndet/soap; we don’t have to sacrifice what we like & switch to liquid cleansers. The site also covered those you mentioned—the immunocompromised: “Also, if you’re immunocompromised for any reason and can’t fight back against a disease-causing invader, Dr. Petukhova says you’re at a higher risk of infection even from your own skin flora.” Can these people slip out of their skin to prevent infecting themselves and becoming ill? Most assuredly not; they have to then become vigilant on what they ‘can’ do to help themselves. Oh, no pretty picture do I paint, just stating (or siting) facts from a whole slue of experts from a myriad of fields of study.

It’s good that the use of this forum wasn’t to sell or gain investors for the product you mentioned in name only; however, if you joined this soaping forum in hopes to convert soap makers to liquid cleansers/liquid soap, I don’t see that happening. I’ll end with another quote, “Even when it comes to other bacteria your bar soap may pick up, the U.S. National Library of Medicine notes that less than 1 percent of bacteria make people sick.”

Thank God for bacteriophages, the most prominent organism on earth. There are more bacteriophages than all other organisms combined. They are not alive or dead, and they kill bacteria.

I am not trying to make people convert to liquid soap, I am trying to stop the CP soap as shampoo scam. People charge an extra 2-3$ just by calling their soap shampoo.

 

[Dawni]

Thank God for bacteriophages, the most prominent organism on earth. There are more bacteriophages than all other organisms combined. They are not alive or dead, and they kill bacteria.

I am not trying to make people convert to liquid soap, I am trying to stop the CP soap as shampoo scam. People charge an extra 2-3$ just by calling their soap shampoo.

Going back to your thread title.. If I do make and promote my soap as shampoo bars, who are you to stop me and say it's a scam?

If customers are buying, and buying repeatedly, it must mean it works for them. If they buy once and never came back then that's fine, too. It's also my call how much I want to charge, and their call how much they're willing to spend on a bar.

It's quite literally my business, not any of yours.

 

[Auxotroph]

Going back to your thread title.. If I do make and promote my soap as shampoo bars, who are you to stop me and say it's a scam?

If customers are buying, and buying repeatedly, it must mean it works for them. If they buy once and never came back then that's fine, too. It's also my call how much I want to charge, and their call how much they're willing to spend on a bar.

It's quite literally my business, not any of yours.

Do you tell them that it is just soap and that like every soap you can use it in your hair?

Or do you miss lead them and tell them that it is specially made and differentiates from normal soap?

 

[Michele50]

Do you tell them that it is just soap and that like every soap you can use it in your hair?

Or do you miss lead them and tell them that it is specially made and differentiates from normal soap?

I'm guessing that you really don't understand that shampoo as we know it today came after soap was used as shampoo? Soap was shampoo, according to the history of shampoo. I've covered this b/4 but in case you missed it--probably more that you don't listen to history but instead only the magical Soap god who has shared with only a chosen few as to what constitutes shampoo--here it is again, stated differently.

From the material below (history of shampoo) anyone (well, maybe not anyone) can conclude that soap was used as and was known as shampoo well b/4 what you say 'is shampoo' was invented. I'm not even sure what you are considering 'shampoo'; I know what you are condemning as not shampoo. I know you are verbally beating up those who make and sell 'soap' as shampoo--which history proves it is. You call it misleading, nope, history proves it is not.

“Originally, soap and shampoo were very similar products; both containing the same naturally derived surfactants, a type of detergent. Modern shampoo as it is known today was first introduced in the 1930s with Drene, the first shampoo using synthetic surfactants instead of soap.” This material is taken from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shampoo Many things preseeded the 'invent' of what we know as shampoo.

To my knowledge, there is no Shampoo god who says what shampoo is and what products aren’t shampoo. Just taking a walk down shampoo lane, visiting the centuries of things used as ‘shampoo’ will tell you that even ashes mixed with water was used to ‘shampoo’ hair. “During the early stages of shampoo in Europe, English hair stylists boiled shaved soap in water..’ Say it isn’t so @Auxotroph!!! Soap was shaved and added to boiling water and THAT was SHAMPOO!! Wow, I guess shampoo bars ARE really SHAMPOO!!! I guess CP soap really IS shampoo!! As I stated in my parts 1, 2, 3 soap was used to clean hair long before modern shampoo was invented (1927).

Which came 1st the chicken or the egg?? The answer is soap, lol; soap 1st and then shampoo as we know it today. History of shampoo below from wiki.

INDIAN SUBCONTINENT:

· In the Indian subcontinent….herbs and their extracts…used as shampoos since ancient times. A very effective early shampoo was made by boiling Sapindus (AKA, soapnuts) with dried Indian gooseberry (amla) and a selection of other herbs, using the strained extract. The fruit pulp contains saponins which are a natural surfactant and the extract of soapnut creates a lather. Guru Nanak, the founder and the first Guru of Sikhism, made references to soapberry tree and soap in the 16th century.

· Cleansing with hair and body massage….was an indulgence of early colonial traders in India. When they returned to Europe, they introduced the newly learned habits, including the hair treatment they called shampoo.

EUOPE:

· Sake Dean Mahomed…surgeon and entrepreneur…credited with introducing the practice of champooi or "shampooing" to Britain. In 1814, Mahomed….opened the first commercial "shampooing" vapour masseur bath in England, in Brighton.

· During the early stages of shampoo in Europe, English hair stylists boiled shaved soap in water and added herbs to give the hair shine and fragrance. Commercially made shampoo was available from the turn of the 20th century. A 1914 advertisement for Canthrox Shampoo in American Magazine….magazine advertisements in 1914 by Rexall featured Harmony Hair Beautifier and Shampoo.

· In 1927, liquid shampoo was invented by German inventor Hans Schwarzkopf in Berlin, whose name created a shampoo brand sold in Europe.

· Originally, soap and shampoo were very similar products; both containing the same naturally derived surfactants, a type of detergent. Modern shampoo as it is known today was first introduced in the 1930s with Drene, the first shampoo using synthetic surfactants instead of soap.

INDONESIA

· Early shampoos used in Indonesia were made from the husk and straw (merang) of rice. The husks and straws were burned into ash, and the ashes (which have alkaline properties) are mixed with water to form lather. The ashes and lather were scrubbed into the hair and rinsed out, leaving the hair clean, but very dry. Afterwards, coconut oil was applied to the hair in order to moisturize it.

Pre-Columbian North America

· Certain Native American tribes used extracts from North American plants as hair shampoo

Pre-Columbian South America

· Before quinoa can be eaten the saponin must be washed out from the grain prior to cooking. Pre-Columbian Andean civilizations used this soapy by-product as a shampoo.

 

[Auxotroph]

Soap makers should just stop being misleading and call their 'shampoo' hair soap, which it really is. It is giving soap makers a bad name.

That's enough

Thread/

 

[Michele50]

Soap makers should just stop being misleading and call their 'shampoo' hair soap, which it really is. It is giving soap makers a bad name.

That's enough

Thread/

I can appreciate your vision of what constitutes shampoo; however, history, proves that it was soap that was used to wash hair centuries ago. During the early stages of shampoo in Europe, English hair stylists boiled shaved soap in water, this WAS the shampoo of the day.

Just because it has morphed into a liquid concoction with very different ingredients than soap and liquid instead of a bar and cleverly marketed as shampoo doesn't make 'soap' shampoo of centuries ago no longer shampoo. If you were hundreds of years old and you lived back when soap was shampoo and the first liquid shampoo was boiled shaved soap in water and you saw a bar of regular old soap, you'd call that bar of soap shampoo and if you saw boiled shaved soap in water in a pot you'd know it was shampoo.

I really don't see your confusion (??). A rose called by any other name is still a rose--soap was shampoo hundreds of years ago / boiled shaved soap in water was the first (probably) liquid shampoo of the time. In fact, I be the liquid mixture of boiled shaved soap for shampoo is what gave some person the idea to invent liquid shampoo and then it morphed into what we know liquid shampoo to be today. I wouldn't be surprised to one day read that an old beauty shop in Europe was dug out and vessels labeled shampoo were found and opened only to find bars of soap and those making the discovery became confused---as are you.

Whether it's called hair soap or shampoo, according to history they are the same because soap was used to shampoo hair/clean hair. I'm puzzled as to how you get to define shampoo. History has already defined it....ashes mixed with water to form a lather; soapnuts, dried amla, and herbs which was a very effective early shampoo; and the boiled shaved soap in water.

If you believe what you call shampoo is the only shampoo then don't market shampoo bars, sell that shampoo butter. But don't tell others here who do that they are misleading others.....history backs them up. Nor are they engaging in false advertising; if they were than those in Europe who boiled shaved soap were also engaging in false advertising. Shampoo bars often have more ingredients; I know mine do and I won't spend that money on ingredients for just my body soap. They are more expensive to make and 'if' I sold shampoo bars (not hair soap, but shampoo bars) then I'd charge more since it costs me more to make them.

I don't see anyone else other than you thinking that selling shampoo bars are giving soap makers a bad name. I believe that you are trying to tarnish soap makers by inventing your own rules for shampoo. I'll stick with history, thank you.