Difference between oil brands

[blazer9x]

Hi All SoapMakers!

I'm a newbie in this Soap Making forum, first please pardon me if my english is not good..

To all soap makers here I have one question about the difference between one brand to another. Here's the story:

My first bar soap batch consist of 50% Palm, 30% CO, and 20% OO Pomace. It turns awesome! Not drying at all in skin. Lather, Cleansing and Conditioning is very good.

With the same recipe, I tried to make other batches (bar and LS), but with the "different" brand of oils.

I had tried:
50% Palm + 30% CO + 20% Soybean,
50% Palm + 30% CO + 20% Canola,
50% Palm + 30% CO + 20% OO Pomace.
all was drying on my hand skin like an old grandpa.. [emoji29] (the cleansing number in Soapee calculator difference is just 1-3).

All was made with 33% of lye:
with bar soap I use 33% NaOH, or for LS I use 33% of KOH (90% purity), all batches made with 5-10% SFat. No zap, pH is around 8-9.

Is it really matter that the brands affected the finished batch?

* I bought the oils (from different brands) on nearest supermarket, and labels either "100% CO" or "100% Soybean" or "100% Canola".

Thank You!

 

[shunt2011]

Hello and welcome to the forum. Do you mean different oils not brands? Everyone reacts different to different oils. As for brands I'm sure there can be a slight variance as well. Or, it may be adulterated oils.

Your cleansing is way more than 1-3. 30% CO can be very drying to many folks. Some can tolerate it but others can't tolerate more than 10-15%. That and in combination to other oils can change the way a soap feels. However, you may also want to limit the amount of soy and canola you use in your recipes as they can cause DOS due to their short shelf life. DOS (dreaded orange spots) = rancidity I wouldn't use those at more than 10-15%. Olive and Olive Pomace are a much better choice as well as High Oleic Sunflower or Safflower.

If not opposed to animal fat, lard makes an awesome soap and usually isn't all that expensive.

 

[blazer9x]

Hello and welcome to the forum. Do you mean different oils not brands? Everyone reacts different to different oils. As for brands I'm sure there can be a slight variance as well. Or, it may be adulterated oils.

Your cleansing is way more than 1-3. 30% CO can be very drying to many folks. Some can tolerate it but others can't tolerate more than 10-15%. That and in combination to other oils can change the way a soap feels. However, you may also want to limit the amount of soy and canola you use in your recipes as they can cause DOS due to their short shelf life. DOS (dreaded orange spots) = rancidity I wouldn't use those at more than 10-15%. Olive and Olive Pomace are a much better choice as well as High Oleic Sunflower or Safflower.

If not opposed to animal fat, lard makes an awesome soap and usually isn't all that expensive.

Hi Shunt2011,

Thank you for your kind response.

I think it is the 30% CO, or my Lye is too strong, or still unsaponified well in 2-3 days.. but no zaps, and pH are all normal..

Still, my highest suspect is the 30% CO is too high...

*From what I mean in my previous post, the cleaning number difference from my batches is around 1-3 points. [emoji2]

sunflower/safflower oil better than soybean/canola? noted. I will try those oils soon! [emoji6]

Ah, and the difference! *almost forgot*
My first bar soap which use the 30% CO turns out perfectly.. still don't know why.. *sad* because with the same amount of CO (only changed OO Pomace with Canola/Soybean) turns drying on skin...

Thank You!

 

[BattleGnome]

Just to clarify, you are testing your soaps before a cure?

That alone might be the issue. I cannot use a soap less than a month old without running to slather my hands in lotion. Soap will definitely feel different after a 4-6 week cure and your skin will notice it.

 

[shunt2011]

Hi Shunt2011,

Thank you for your kind response.

I think it is the 30% CO, or my Lye is too strong, or still unsaponified well in 2-3 days.. but no zaps, and pH are all normal..

Still, my highest suspect is the 30% CO is too high...

*From what I mean in my previous post, the cleaning number difference from my batches is around 1-3 points. [emoji2]

sunflower/safflower oil better than soybean/canola? noted. I will try those oils soon! [emoji6]

Ah, and the difference! *almost forgot*
My first bar soap which use the 30% CO turns out perfectly.. still don't know why.. *sad* because with the same amount of CO (only changed OO Pomace with Canola/Soybean) turns drying on skin...

Thank You!

That's not nearly long enough to be testing a soap. You need to let it cure at least 4 weeks. Some soaps require longer.

PH testing is pretty non useful with soap. Zap testing is the only way to know if there is any excess lye in the soap. Though I still suspect it's too much CO.

 

[blazer9x]

Just to clarify, you are testing your soaps before a cure?

That alone might be the issue. I cannot use a soap less than a month old without running to slather my hands in lotion. Soap will definitely feel different after a 4-6 week cure and your skin will notice it.

You're right, BattleGnome. Usually I left the Mold (bar soap) or the SoapPaste (LS) for about 48 hours, then checks with the Zap and with the pH test - dillute a pinch of soap in water. Turns water clear - no clouds & no milky!
So, I think the soap is ready to use.. Please CMIIW.. :-?


I think I'm lost in making soap.. LOL

 

[BattleGnome]

After 48 hours your soap should be fully saponified, that’s what the zap test tells you. Cure is something different.

Cure time allows excess water to evaporate from the bar of soap and allows the chemical structure of the soap to do its thing. I call it magic but there is science to why cure time makes soap better. The soap will mellow out - like with letting meat rest after cooking, that extra time lets the meat do its thing and makes everything better. Most recipes need 4-6 weeks to mellow out.

The first few stickies threads in the beginners forum might help clear some more things up, they’re good reminders for everyone

 

[toxikon]

Here's a couple helpful reads for you:

http://www.lovinsoap.com/oils-chart/

This is a great compilation of different oils and their effects when used in soap - a little deeper than the numbers that lye calculators provide. Getting into balancing the fatty acid profiles of your oils will produce more reliable results.

DeAnna's blog post on curing: https://classicbells.com/soap/cure.html

 

[blazer9x]

Here's a couple helpful reads for you:

http://www.lovinsoap.com/oils-chart/

This is a great compilation of different oils and their effects when used in soap - a little deeper than the numbers that lye calculators provide. Getting into balancing the fatty acid profiles of your oils will produce more reliable results.

DeAnna's blog post on curing: https://classicbells.com/soap/cure.html

Thank you Toxicon


Tonight I will make a few batches (only small amount of course),
I will try: 10% CO, 15% CO, 20% CO..
with expecting the soap will produce a little lather in shower or handwashing.. - with the timely cure of course! (while still impatient LOL).


Is there anyone in this forum using a lot of Brands in their soap making process?
example: CoconutOil Brand "X" made in Spain, Brand "Y" made in UK, or Brand "Z" made in China, and how is the results affect their soap?
* because we don't really know exactly what is inside the oil (maybe the manufacturer from Brand X using 'something' in their oils), right?
* I'm truly sorry for this question not mentioning any brand, because in my country, it is not polite to mention a brand.


Just my curiosity though..


I'm happy this forums had a lot of skilled soapmakers and willing to share their ideas!

 

[Obsidian]

I use different brands of coconut all the time and notice no difference in the finished soap

 

[earlene]

I do NOT observe any noticeable difference in my soaps from different brands of oils. But I do observe real differences with different oils themselves. And mostly the difference in how my skin responds to the soap is noticeable when I use soap too soon before it has had a sufficient cure. For me my skin really responds well to a longer cured soap than a short cure.

Another difference I notice is how the weather and having to use a heater, which really decreases humidity in the home, effects how my skin responds to soap. In the winter my skin is dryer and so unless I am using my mildest and most luxurious soaps, my skin tends to feel dry after washing up. I think that when we run out of water softener salt for our water softener, the hard water also tends to play a part in how my skin responds to soap as well.

If you tested your soaps at the same cure time (each at the same age since being made), and your skin only responded well to the soap with OO, but not the soap with soy or canola, that would indicate the OO is a better choice for you in that formula. However, I would not toss the other soaps just yet. Hold onto them and test them once a week or once a month and take note of any performance improvements. Sometimes soap that seems really harsh when it is new, gets better with age and you end up really liking it when it has cured sufficiently.

 

[blazer9x]

I do observe any noticeable difference in my soaps from different brands of oils. But I do observe real differences with different oils themselves. And mostly the difference in how my skin responds to the soap is noticeable when I use soap too soon before it has had a sufficient cure. For me my skin really responds well to a longer cured soap than a short cure.

Another difference I notice is how the weather and having to use a heater, which really decreases humidity in the home, effects how my skin responds to soap. In the winter my skin is dryer and so unless I am using my mildest and most luxurious soaps, my skin tends to feel dry after washing up. I think that when we run out of water softener salt for our water softener, the hard water also tends to play a part in how my skin responds to soap as well.

If you tested your soaps at the same cure time (each at the same age since being made), and your skin only responded well to the soap with OO, but not the soap with soy or canola, that would indicate the OO is a better choice for you in that formula. However, I would not toss the other soaps just yet. Hold onto them and test them once a week or once a month and take note of any performance improvements. Sometimes soap that seems really harsh when it is new, gets better with age and you end up really liking it when it has cured sufficiently.

What a great explanation! Thanks!
From the posts above, all really mentioned the longer curing time will affect the performance of soaps. Really need to be patient with soaps.

 

[earlene]

What a great explanation! Thanks!
From the posts above, all really mentioned the longer curing time will affect the performance of soaps. Really need to be patient with soaps.

Oops! I just noticed I left a word out in that post. I know better than posting without proof reading! I edited it to add the word 'not' in the first sentence.

 

[blazer9x]

Oops! I just noticed I left a word out in that post. I know better than posting without proof reading! I edited it to add the word 'not' in the first sentence.

LOL
I notice it after re-read it again! [emoji1]
since your explanation is very deep, i even didn't notice about the brand itself..