Describing Pine Tar Soap w/o medical claims?

[soapsydaisy]

I'm trying to write a description for my Pine Tar Soap but this is all I can come up with: "Kinda ugly, smells a little funky but great for your skin." How do you describe PT without using medical claims?

 

[innerdiva73]

Possibly talk about the history of pine tar soap and what people use to use it for.

 

[dagmar88]

Depends on how you want to market it.
I've seen some toe-curling medical claims combined with disclaimers on (amongst others) Etsy.
If you want to market as soap, I'd simply go for "soap with x% pine tar".

 

[papertiger]

If you make claims directly of your soap, your soap is no longer soap but a drug. You should give a description of the history of tar soap and what conditions people use it for.

If your serious about selling soap professionally, you should do some professional research and eduction yourself. A good place to start is from the horses mouth - the agency that regulates such matters!
Here is a link to the FDA page. Take a look at that page and others.
http://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/guidancecomplianceregulatoryinformation/ucm074201.htm

Take a look and explore that site. If you have questions I would be happy to answer them.

Tar soap is great!

 

[Bicycle808]

Depends on how you want to market it.
I've seen some toe-curling medical claims combined with disclaimers on (amongst others) Etsy.
If you want to market as soap, I'd simply go for "soap with x% pine tar".

+1. I've been putting little taglines on my labels that say "best described as:..." with a random, frivolous adjective. If I were selling pine tar soap, I think I'd go with "best described as: coniferous."

I can't safely recommend that strategy, so go with what Dagmar said. To go into the history of pine tar, and what medicinal/magical properties have been attributed to it historically, is pretty much the same as listing some medicinal qualities of your soap...

 

[judymoody]

papertiger, that is always a really helpful link; however I think you misinterpreted soapsydaisy's post. She is asking how to avoid making medical claims, suggesting that she is aware of the regulations governing soap labeling.

Could you post in the introduction section and tell us a little bit about yourself so we can welcome you properly as a new member? Many thanks.

edited to add: I would label it as "traditional" or "old fashioned". Those seeking out pine tar soap are probably aware of its purported medical effects without any overt claims on your part.

 

[lsg]

I agree with those who suggested just offering information on the history and use of pine tar. You might put a little brochure next to your soap display or offer a link to information on the Internet on the history and use of pine tar near your soap description, if you are selling on the Internet.

 

[sistrum]

Giving a history of the the uses of pine tar in soap is the same as saying that your soap will do the same. Other soapers have been stopped from selling pine tar soap because just having "Pine Tar Soap" on the lable, it's all about the publics perception of an ingredient and the FDA looks at pine tar as a drug. Sorry for the lack of links but go on line ane look up pine tar soap. I'm not sure if it would be cool for me to mention the name of the soaped that got busted but it is on line.

 

[Buttsmom]

I know nothing about the legalities of it all, but maybe you could say "Pine Tar soap, like Grandma used to use" I know personally when ever I think of Pine Tar soap I think of my Grandma and her soap.

 

[lsg]

Giving a history of the the uses of pine tar in soap is the same as saying that your soap will do the same. Other soapers have been stopped from selling pine tar soap because just having "Pine Tar Soap" on the lable, it's all about the publics perception of an ingredient and the FDA looks at pine tar as a drug. Sorry for the lack of links but go on line ane look up pine tar soap. I'm not sure if it would be cool for me to mention the name of the soaped that got busted but it is on line.

Well, I would go with rather be safe than sorry. Maybe giving the history of pine tar is not a good idea.:sad:

 

[innerdiva73]

How about talking about the properties of the Pine Tar soap. Just my 2 scents, you can talk about the benefits of something without saying "look this is what MY soap can do". Case in study, Many ancient people used Goji berries due the fact it helped with certain ailments and many people have adopted this fruit into their daily diet.

This was taken from the National Psoriasis Foundation's website
http://www.psoriasis.org/about-psoriasis/treatments/topicals/over-the-counter
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/pine+tar

I would NOT make any claims but I would put a disclaimer on the label that it is not meant to treat or cure any disease.

 

[sistrum]

I can't figure out how to post links with my iPad so people,are just going to have to look on their own, sorry. But if you point to any thing that says anything you use in your has the effect of a drug your product is claiming to be a drug. Even testimonials from other people count. Having a disclaimer doesen't Chang this if the government decides to get involved. Lots of people do it and don't get caught. People also play Russian roulette and don't die. It's up to you.

My feeling is if as soapers we continue to flaunt the regulations someone might just decide that it will be easier just to outlaw the sale of hand made soap.

Edited to add, things that people eat are covered by different regulations.

 

[innerdiva73]

To each his own, To be on the safe side as to not cause any hissy fits with the FDA, other soapers, or people that don't use common sense, you can just say that it contains Pine tar! 8)

 

[Kansas Farm Girl]

The last thing I can find from the FDA is dated 1990 in a news release titled "Clean-Up of Ineffective Ingredients in OTC Drug Products"
FDA said no proof that the ingredients are effective for certain conditions has been submitted during the agency's ongoing review, even though manufacturers have had many opportunities... Among the substances banned are
juniper tar and pine tar in dandruff products, various..........Anti-dandruff
products such as Tegrin Lotion could no longer include allantoin, and
Packers shampoo and Packers Soap could no longer include pine tar.....
.....Once the ban takes effect in six months, manufacturers wishing to include any of these ingredients in nonprescription products will have to provide FDA evidence that the ingredient is safe and effective for its intended use and obtain the agency's approval........http://pinch.com/skin/docs/fda/FDA-OTC-ingredients-ban

They say it's banned, but is it only banned if you state that it will resolve a certain issue like dandruff or acne or something? Something else I read said it has to have at least 20% pine tar to be called pine tar soap. If it is labeled as Pine Tar Soap with no claims about what it will do for you, is it still banned by FDA?

 

[Bicycle808]

OK, let's be real here: soapers rarely get busted for making flagrantly wild claims on their labels or online advertisements. Even when Etsy had to crack down on all of those soapers with their shameless claims, folks weren't getting fined or imprisoned. No one is going to take your "soaping license" away--- well, probably not.:shock: But, the fact is, legally you're not allowed to make medicinal claims on your soap unless you're FDA-approved, and there is always that risk, for those of us who are paranoid. Making med-type claims is the wrong thing to do, from a "wise vs foolish" standpoint.

But enough about that; let's get into the right vs wrong (from a angel/devil standpoint) of making these claims. You made some pine tar soap. I'm thinking this is probably one of your first batches of PT soap; which is what prompted this thread. You've read all this stuff online-- probably from other soapers hawking their products-- about how PT soap will help with/cure all kinds of ailments, including psoriasis, exzema, herpes, acne, cellulite, chiggers, ugliness, and even death. And, it very well might, but at this point, you don't know what your soap can do. Personally, I'd feel irresponsible and sleezy if I were to make some claims without some clinically valid research.

I understand that the OP is trying to sidestep this, and I see a lot of ppl mentioned discussing historical uses and other mythology, but why would you even mention that if you weren't trying to suggest that your PT Soap will perform all of those "historical" claims? I said it before, and Sistrum said it a few times, but to do that seems wrong to me, and technically illegal.

To be fair, most every new customer I run into will eventually give me an opening to make some snake-oil claims, like "oooh, oatmeal? what does oatmeal soap do?" I usually respond "It gets ya clean." If they ask "Does it do anything else?", I usually suspect that they want me to say that it moisturizes, rejuvenates, and energizes old skin or something, but I tend to say something like "It makes bubbles." By then, if they don't "get it", I explain the shaky situation surrounding such claims w/ handmade soap, and then politely suggest Googling whatever ingredient they've been askin'about.

 

[soapsydaisy]

I am the OP. I am just trying to find a nice way to describe Pine Tar Soap w/o going into medical claims. Pine tar soap isn't that pretty and smells kinda funky. I just sell at two local farmers market, people usually smell a few bars and buy the ones they like. With that being said, I just labeled my soap as pine tar without a description and didn't sell any at our market this morning. The shoppers at this market are young, the FM is at a college. My Tuesday market has an older crowd, maybe it will sell there. I have no interest in claiming that my soap is miraculous, I was just trying to find a fun way to describe it without making claims. My other soaps don't really require a lot of explanation, they smell really nice and are pretty Sorry to cause a stir.

 

[heartsong]

I am the OP. I am just trying to find a nice way to describe Pine Tar Soap w/o going into medical claims. Pine tar soap isn't that pretty and smells kinda funky. I just sell at two local farmers market, people usually smell a few bars and buy the ones they like. With that being said, I just labeled my soap as pine tar without a description and didn't sell any at our market this morning. The shoppers at this market are young, the FM is at a college. My Tuesday market has an older crowd, maybe it will sell there. I have no interest in claiming that my soap is miraculous, I was just trying to find a fun way to describe it without making claims. My other soaps don't really require a lot of explanation, they smell really nice and are pretty Sorry to cause a stir.

the people who are most likely to purchase the PT soap are very well informed about it anyway...this travels by word of mouth...what you can say is something like this: "similar to the old fashioned pine tar soap, our modern cold process is enriched with olive oil, coconut,...etc"...and tell how great the other stuff you put into your soap is.

 

[Bicycle808]

Hos about a label that reads "Pine Tar Soap-- Go Ask Grampa"

 

[Paintguru]

Then why sell pine tar or oatmeal soap at all? I'm sorry, but I don't feel that there is anything wrong with directing people on how to educate themselves about a certain type of product you sell. The law says you can't make medical claims about your product. You aren't doing that by telling the customer to go educate themselves on what certain additives to products are thought to do. If people could actually link to specific cases that goes against this thinking, then feel free to post it. However, as someone else said, I don't think the FDA is going to go after people, especially if they're not making wild claims on their products. Just my 2 cents.

 

[judymoody]

Personally, I kind of like the smell of pine tar. Weird, I know.

It seems like a niche project for me which may or may not be well received at your local market.

I make it infrequently because it's a pain to make, just for friends who have skin issues of various sorts. I'm primarily a hobbyist and I give it away. For some, the pine tar offers relief. For others, it's a nicely superfatted, unscented, Bastille goat's milk soap infused with chamomille and calendula.