Customer Return Request - WWYD

[amd]

This is what I sent to her this morning:

Of course... an hour later I remembered that my castile soap is vegan! Oh well. For two bars of soap, I'm not extremely worried. The two soaps she purchased were "only one left" bars so I won't be putting them back into the store. Not worth paying the listing price for Etsy. I'll just write them off and throw them in my personal soap stash.

 

[earlene]

Well, there you go! You 'learned' you do carry vegan soap after all!

 

[DeeAnna]

Yeah, I do this too -- issue a refund or replacement and tell the customer to keep the original product. It depends on the cost of the item -- my products range from under $1 to over $1000. High dollar items I do ask for a return; low cost items I usually don't. This often makes people pretty happy.

@amd Sherry -- you struck a really nice balance in your message to your customer. I like how you asked a question about making the ingred list more visible -- you made your point without being confrontational, and you invited feedback which may result in some good suggestions for your business. Well done!

 

[Dennis]

Two thumbs up! Excellent! Also, your vegan castile could possibly be considered "custom". Ha!

 

[scard]

She can always return those soaps to me, I'm not a vegan and your soaps are really pretty!

 

[Lin19687]

@amd funny I almost forgot about that chat we had. But now that I do I went and double checked mine

I would like to know if she actually returns it. Would be funny to see if she truly wants a refund or was fishing.

I know of someone that was contacted about a refund, made them return it and it WASN'T EVEN THEIR STUFF !?

 

[lsg]

Good message to the customer. If she is truly interested in returning, she should respond. Let us know if she responds.

 

[amd]

So far, no response. I'll send the refund when/if I receive the soaps.

 

[NsMar42111]

I disagree, I'd have them ship it back-because I've read website where they do this on purpose. They'll buy something, demand a refund, keep using said something and tada! Free something! It's touted as a frugal money saving method...errr no. I would up date the return policy though LOL.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

@amd
I know of someone that was contacted about a refund, made them return it and it WASN'T EVEN THEIR STUFF !?

I work in the electronics repair industry. It's not at all uncommon for us to receive returns of printers from entirely different manufacturers. Once, we got back a Nikon camera in a printer box.

As for the OP question, I would change my policy to All Sales Final. Assuming you sell only soap, body, etc items, every return is a loss because you can not resell any returns. Why incurr an additional cost - especially one that you can't control - in a craft that already has such a low margin? It's not like we're talking about defects, here but people who try something and don't like it. Are you running a trial shop or a sales business?

The very idea of returning things is a very American concept. Our Japanese colleagues struggle with the concept when they are new because you simply can't return things in Japan. Once you buy something, it's yours. Even if you buy something brand new and fails out of the box, it will not be replaced; you must have it repaired (under warranty, though).

 

[cmzaha]

I disagree, I'd have them ship it back-because I've read website where they do this on purpose. They'll buy something, demand a refund, keep using said something and tada! Free something! It's touted as a frugal money saving method...errr no. I would up date the return policy though LOL.

It does, but there are still more honest buyers that not. I mentioned we had one that was a habitual returner because she knew we did not require shipping back. We just cut her from our customer list. Then the other direction I sent a soap, my bad, that was not good and our customer never informed us. I contacted her and she had tossed it and just figured it was an error. I replaced with double the soaps which she said was un-necessary. So there are good customers. I also asked her to please let us know of any issues. It takes time and some loss of product to build a good online customer base, but it can be done. BTW Bloggers are the worst to work with.

 

[DeeAnna]

@NsMar42111 -- Yeah, you have a good point there. In my biz, the few customers who do want to return an item have all seemed legit and have reasonable reasons for the return, so I've not had a problem with them keeping an item if it's low cost. I would never put this in writing by the way -- I do this only at my discretion.

I did have a situation once with a wholesale customer who claimed some of the items in her order had a cut across them. She wanted to return the items for an exchange. I am certain she or another employee used a box cutter to open the box and sliced some of the product in the process. That really p....d me off because that wasn't my problem to solve. Since I couldn't prove without any shadow of doubt that it wasn't my error, I replaced the product, but I kept a wary eye on that client after that incident. And started to put warning stickers on the boxes about using box cutters.

 

[LilyJo]

If you sell online in the UK you are obligated to accept returns and refund the original postage as part of the updated consumer contract laws. There are some exceptions but if something like this happens to me we either send a replacement or refund without expecting the return (in the long run both save me the cost of the return and the postage).

 

[Lin19687]

If you sell online in the UK you are obligated to accept returns and refund the original postage as part of the updated consumer contract laws. There are some exceptions but if something like this happens to me we either send a replacement or refund without expecting the return (in the long run both save me the cost of the return and the postage).

That will never happen here. This is a return crazy country and if that happened everyone would stop selling.
Could you just imagine ???

 

[amd]

I disagree, I'd have them ship it back-because I've read website where they do this on purpose. They'll buy something, demand a refund, keep using said something and tada! Free something! It's touted as a frugal money saving method...errr no. I would up date the return policy though LOL.

I have done replacements for customers that I know without them ever returning the product - such as last February when a customer contacted me about my Nag Champa soap. She'd bought it in October and she was about to use it but she didn't think it smelled the same as when she bought it. Now... we know that fragrances will fade when soap gets older, and in this customers defense she did buy 10 bars in October, so at the time that she used it the soap was probably close to 14 months old. This customer happens to buy regularly from me and sends new customers my way quite often, so I did replace the 3 bars of old Nag Champa with bars that were two months old, and I never asked her to send the old ones back, I just did it. Because I know her. Because she gives me business. Now, the Etsy gal requesting a refund? I will probably never see her again. I don't know her outside of this one transaction. Am I going to blindly return her money because she can't read a product description? Nope. I've offered her the refund and informed her that she does have to pay return shipping - exactly what is posted on my Etsy store policy. If she's fishing for free product, she won't be getting it from me. I'm a jerk this week and I'm not apologizing for it.

 

[earlene]

I would certainly be wary of purchasing anything if I couldn't return it if it didn't work or was faulty! In my 20's I bought a 35mm movie camera that didn't work straight out of the box, so I exchanged it for a new one, same model. It didn't work either, so I returned it for a full refund. I was really disappointed because I wanted a movie camera as my kids were small at the time and having a movie camera was really something pretty cool to have. But it was a long time before I was able to find an affordable one after that situation.

When I was young I was really wary of mail order, even though I did order from Sears Catalog once in awhile because if something didn't fit or malfunctioned I could return it at the Sears & Roebuck in my hometown. I loved the Spiegel Catalogue, but Spiegel was in Chicago and I was in California, so returns would have been a hassle with which I just wouldn't want to deal. But, boy oh boy were they big! I used to work at the USPS sorting mail in the late 60's and Spiegel had it's own 5-digit zip code. My home town (a city) in the SF Bay area had only one 5-digit zip code at that time, if I remember correctly. To me that was remarkable. But of course that was a long time ago. Many things have changed so much since then. Now it's online ordering and empty storefronts all over the place and Amazon lockers (in some locations) so you don't have to depend on boxes being left unattended on your door step.

But still, returns are considered practically a basic right in the US and apparently in the UK, too by what I am reading. I do believe that is as it should be. Have you ever bought a carton of milk with an expiration date of at least 7 more days and when you get home and open it 30 minutes later it's spoiled and undrinkable? If I were not allowed to return that to the grocery store, I would be livid.

 

[cerelife]

I have done replacements for customers that I know without them ever returning the product - such as last February when a customer contacted me about my Nag Champa soap. She'd bought it in October and she was about to use it but she didn't think it smelled the same as when she bought it. Now... we know that fragrances will fade when soap gets older, and in this customers defense she did buy 10 bars in October, so at the time that she used it the soap was probably close to 14 months old. This customer happens to buy regularly from me and sends new customers my way quite often, so I did replace the 3 bars of old Nag Champa with bars that were two months old, and I never asked her to send the old ones back, I just did it. Because I know her. Because she gives me business. Now, the Etsy gal requesting a refund? I will probably never see her again. I don't know her outside of this one transaction. Am I going to blindly return her money because she can't read a product description? Nope. I've offered her the refund and informed her that she does have to pay return shipping - exactly what is posted on my Etsy store policy. If she's fishing for free product, she won't be getting it from me. I'm a jerk this week and I'm not apologizing for it.

THIS!!
I had a similar situation with a customer whom I knew a couple of years ago and I did exactly the same as you. She was amazed and delighted that I didn't ask her to return her products since she said she liked them but didn't LOVE them as much as what she had originally bought. It happens, and I know her and had zero problems sending her replacements!
But I gained a devoted customer and made a friend in the process
We work some of the same festivals and now we just barter our products until we meet again. We have a loose running tab and always joke about who is in whom's debt
BTW, she's an amazing artist and a total sweetheart!
http://ellenmccordarts.com/

 

[SaltedFig]

If you sell online in the UK you are obligated to accept returns and refund the original postage as part of the updated consumer contract laws. There are some exceptions but if something like this happens to me we either send a replacement or refund without expecting the return (in the long run both save me the cost of the return and the postage).

LilyJo, the distance selling rules don't apply for purchases under £42, according to this UK government website "Online and Distance Selling for Businesses"

For the 14 day change of mind returns, it looks like you only need to refund the standard delivery charge for postage (not any extra's or premium postage services). See "cancellation by the consumer"

It looks like there's an out for you, for change of mind returns only - you can charge for the reasonable return postage (the arrangements for the return automatically fall to you unless you have written into your listing/policy in advance that it's the customers responsibility to arrange the return). See "return delivery charges"

Your Consumer Rights Act 2015 is complex (and replaced 3 acts - that's a bit a huge change ) ... I think where I am is much easier, but I can see what they were trying to achieve.

Our laws in Australia allow a reasonable deduction for postage and handling when an item is returned, so our consumer laws are a little more biased in the sellers favour in that respect. We are also still allowed to refuse change-of-mind returns, but a lot of places/sellers here don't do that anymore.

Do American laws allow amd to charge reasonable handling charges on the return (if it happens) before issuing a refund?

 

[DeeAnna]

Some companies in the US charge a "restocking fee" that they use to discourage/penalize the customer for making a return. It's not commonly done, but if it's stated clearly up front, it's legal.

***
What especially gripes me about returns is when the customer just throws the product topsy turvy in a box and expects it to arrive at my shop in "as received" condition ready for re-sale.

Two wholesale clients pulled this stunt in recent years. In each case, $500 to $1000 worth of product was returned. We package many items in plastic bags or paper and take care to arrange the items so they don't get damaged during shipping. These customers returned the items "naked" and all tumbled together.

In one case, the products still had the adhesive price stickers attached directly on the product. When I discussed this with her, she blandly told me I should just sell the priced items to other people and they could remove the stickers. (If you've ever dealt with adhesive stickers on leather, you'll know stickers often cause permanent damage.) I had to trash about 1/3 to 1/2 of each return for damage.

As Dennis pointed out, I've learned it's important to know when to quit -- to know when to not add more drama to the already existing drama. So I ate the cost of the damaged goods rather than fight about it. I absolutely knew I wasn't going to win with either of these people. I did, however, add them to my short list of fired clients and used the energy I would have otherwise wasted to serve the many reasonable and nice people I have as customers.

 

[LilyJo]

LilyJo, the distance selling rules don't apply for purchases under £42, according to this UK government website "Online and Distance Selling for Businesses"

For the 14 day change of mind returns, it looks like you only need to refund the standard delivery charge for postage (not any extra's or premium postage services). See "cancellation by the consumer"

It looks like there's an out for you, for change of mind returns only - you can charge for the reasonable return postage (the arrangements for the return automatically fall to you unless you have written into your listing/policy in advance that it's the customers responsibility to arrange the return). See "return delivery charges"

Your Consumer Rights Act 2015 is complex (and replaced 3 acts - that's a bit a huge change ) ... I think where I am is much easier, but I can see what they were trying to achieve.

Our laws in Australia allow a reasonable deduction for postage and handling when an item is returned, so our consumer laws are a little more biased in the sellers favour in that respect. We are also still allowed to refuse change-of-mind returns, but a lot of places/sellers here don't do that anymore.

Do American laws allow amd to charge reasonable handling charges on the return (if it happens) before issuing a refund?

Hmm, thats not my interpretation of the laws nor other peoples! Distance selling is different to online selling which has greater restrictions and more protections for the consumer and as far as I am concerned both as a customer and a seller the £42 doesnt come into it.

I am aware of the 14 day refund process regarding extras and also not refunding personalised items - Ive been doing this for years and my website complies with UK laws despite most other soapers and candle makers not even bothering with addresses, contact details let alone CLP labels for candles and safety assessments for soaps.

The law is trying to deliver the same level of protection to online customers as they would have if they bought in person as at a B&M store they would have the opportunity to see, smell etc any product. There isnt a legal responsibility for either to accept returns as a change of mind but its considered good customer service.

Did you know that any seller in the US or AUS that sells into the UK is obligated to comply with UK laws? If you have a business and sell through Etsy or a website your products should be EU compliant if you offer sales there. And vice versa - its one of the reasons we dont sell to US and why its so hard to insurance to cover goods sold over there