BrewerGeorge
Well-Known Member
Oh, yes, I've seen that! I was asking more about what KOH does in the context of the explanation above. How does it affect the crystal and liquid colloid that DeeAnna described?
Cure time...
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Oh, yes, I've seen that! I was asking more about what KOH does in the context of the explanation above. How does it affect the crystal and liquid colloid that DeeAnna described?
Thank you so much, DeeAnna, for all the obvious hard work you put into making that a reader-friendly, information-packed explanation. I will be re-reading it a few (or several) times, but my initial thoughts were that it sure cleared up many questions I'd had about soap structure. You rock!
Earlene --
I wrote: "..This bulky shape prevents oleic soap molecules from fitting nicely into the structure of a soap crystal, so the liquid phase in a bar of contains many more oleic soap molecules than what you might think from looking at the soap recipe...."
And you asked "...for clarification of an apparently missing word or words in the above highlighted phrase. What was your original intent for the part in blue? Was the word 'Castile' left out, or was it something else like 'soap made with certain soft oils'..."
I'm talking about any soap that contains any amount of oleic acid. Even a 100% coconut oil soap contains oleic acid -- about 8% according to my notes.
But you're right -- I see I need to add "soap" after "bar of" in that sentence. Thanks for bringing this to my attention -- correction made.
BrewerGeorge -- you asked another short, apparently simple question that needs a long-winded answer. Lemme work on it, okay?
I wrote: "..This bulky shape prevents oleic soap molecules from fitting nicely into the structure of a soap crystal, so the liquid phase in a bar of contains many more oleic soap molecules than what you might think from looking at the soap recipe...."
And you asked "...for clarification of an apparently missing word or words in the above highlighted phrase. What was your original intent for the part in blue? Was the word 'Castile' left out, or was it something else like 'soap made with certain soft oils'..."
I'm talking about any soap that contains any amount of oleic acid. Even a 100% coconut oil soap contains oleic acid -- about 8% according to my notes.
But you're right -- I see I need to add "soap" after "bar of" in that sentence. Thanks for bringing this to my attention -- correction made.
BrewerGeorge -- you asked another short, apparently simple question that needs a long-winded answer. Lemme work on it, okay?
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Thank you so much, DeeAnna, for putting into words what all of the long-term soap-makers here had discovered for themselves and known for a long time from tangible experience, but were just not able to explain from a scientific perspective, especially in such a wonderful, well written/easy to grasp manner! Bravo and thank you, thank you, thank you! You are amazing and deserve a hearty round of applause!
I eagerly await your "long-winded" answer to Brewer George!
IrishLass
I eagerly await your "long-winded" answer to Brewer George!
IrishLass
Thank you, Irish Lass and everyone else!
I'm still plugging away on BG's answer. I've been reading and re-reading several tomes on soap chemistry and technology to glean the info I need for the questions in this thread. Distilling the science down to everyday language is a good way to learn a subject like this, but it's slow work.
I'm still plugging away on BG's answer. I've been reading and re-reading several tomes on soap chemistry and technology to glean the info I need for the questions in this thread. Distilling the science down to everyday language is a good way to learn a subject like this, but it's slow work.
No pressure- it's worth the wait!
IrishLass
IrishLass
How cool is THAT to understand what happens inside a bar of soap! Maybe some day we'll have microscopy pics showing actual molecular structure at various stages. No pressure DeeAnna ;P
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Is there any difference in this scenario if there is a water discount? I would assume that there is still water to be evaporated before the salting out reaction is triggered, but that it may be triggered somewhat earlier. From the sounds of it, this organization takes many weeks to complete, so water discount would not change the fact that 4-6 weeks of cure time is needed (more for this structuring to complete.)
Why in the world would anyone want to "shot down in flames"?? Maybe this is why I am having a time posting....fear. Not all soap makers are created equal. Not all situations are perfect, and.....to create takes guilts. Stepping out of the norm should be a, "Wow, I never thought of that".
BrewerGeorge
Well-Known Member
The frustration that might lead to those shots being fired comes from the regularity with which this subject returns. There is SO much bad info on the web and in social media. Not a week goes by that I don't see at least one post on a homesteading or prepper facebook group with a bad article about making soap. (Usually they're not dangerous, just bad recipes, process, and advice.)
There are a lot of so-called experts out there leading people in the wrong direction. Soap making is forgiving enough that people can have "success" simply parroting a flawed process without ever really knowing what they're doing or, indeed what they're missing. But on this site, there are several people who really, really know what they're doing (Please note that I am not including myself in that...) and are willing to share that knowledge for the greater good. So when the next person shows up asking why HP soap needs to be cured like CP soap, the response may be ...quick.
However, I do not think I've ever seen those shots fired in anger here. This is a welcoming place.
Also, the home-based artisanal soap business is not closely regulated, at least not in the USA. I don't sell soap myself but if I did I would resent someone else selling bad soap. A customer who goes down to the local farmer's market and buys soap that irritates her skin may decide that all artisanal soap does that and not buy any ever again--from anyone, including from the people who know what they're doing.
So I see some of the negative reaction to bad soaping advice on this forum as a way for people to make sure the soap-making community maintains some quality standards.
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I agree ^^^. Thankyou DeeAnna
I have had quite a few people visit my booth thoughout my years of selling and mention they would not use handmade soap, due to poor recipes or cure times. I have seen many a bad soap being sold in markets and it hurts all of us sellers. This is not including the people that simply cannot use handmade soap
It even affects people who don't sell. My own (ex)in-laws would not use my hand made soap because they got bad soap from somewhere.
Not to mention that "stepping out of the norm" might also be a step in to something utterly and totally and demonstrably wrong, so the reaction can't and shouldn't be "wow, I never thought of that" particularly if someone had thought of that, tried it and/or crunched some science and found it to be false.
As in your example, someone who says "curing is finished when the water is evaporated therefore I use a steep water discount to get cured faster" can't then explain a Castile cure or a salt bar cure. I can't say "wow" to that.
I think that the major issue is that people often put these things out as being a fact. The flames of that need be put out before they can spread - bad information spreads online like wildfire.
As in your example, someone who says "curing is finished when the water is evaporated therefore I use a steep water discount to get cured faster" can't then explain a Castile cure or a salt bar cure. I can't say "wow" to that.
I think that the major issue is that people often put these things out as being a fact. The flames of that need be put out before they can spread - bad information spreads online like wildfire.
DeeAnna, awesome info. You need to write a book - or someone needs to cull through all your posts in SMF and assemble them into a book for you!
CTAnton
Well-Known Member
DeeAnna....you're simply priceless!
Well, I haven't assembled a DeeAnna book or anything like that, but I confess that I have a 'DeeAnna Files' folder on my computer into which I copy/paste the links to all of DeeAnna's posts on the forum that have specifically answered many of the nagging/curious questions I've had about the secret life of soap over the years. I got the idea from Susie. :mrgreen:
IrishLass
DeeAnna, I do apologize for being rude, your work that you have done is great, I do follow you, and believe I was out of line. I don't know if I misunderstood what I was reading or I just didn't understand what I was doing. Either way, I apologize.
No apology necessary, Spice. I didn't think you were talking to me specifically -- more talking in general about your reactions and feelings. We're good!
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