Crumbly Soap

[nettles]

OK, I need help. I just joined this forum, and this problem has probably been addressed before, but here goes anyway. I've had a string of failures lately. I don't mind losing a batch if I understand why, and can count it all as learning and experience. But when I don't understand...
My soap has been turning out excessively crumbly. No, it is not too much lye, I use a proven recipe that I follow to the letter. One time, I had put the soap to gel in a new spot, a very warm spot, upstairs, just above the wood heater. So I suspected too hot. Then, the next time, it was on the floor in a back bedroom, and the temperature outside dropped, leaving all the back rooms cold. So I suspected too cold. So how important is the temp? The soap molds are always securely wrapped up in blankets. Sometimes, when I worm my hand up under the blankets to see if the soap is producing any heat, I will never feel any heat. But sometimes, the batch turns out just fine anyway. Sometimes not. Sometimes, when I feel warmth, the soap will also turn out good, sometimes not.

I am completely befuddled. How do I achieve consistent results? The only variable I can see here is the temperature. Am I on the right track? How can I maintain an even PERFECT temperature? What IS perfect? Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance...

 

[topcat]

Hi nettles. Would you mind posting your recipe please? It helps to know what oils & weights etc you are using, the amount of liquids and lye.

Tanya

 

[nettles]

Hi Topcat! Here is the recipe that gives me the most trouble:

200 g sodium hydroxide
538 g water (I use melted snow)
596 g olive oil
454 g coconut oil
396 g palm oil

I took a picture of my latest batch, but couldn't figure out how to add the picture to my post. I AM new at this... Blue (Nettles)

 

[topcat]

This is definitely a mystery. Both soapcalc and my soapmaker program show this to be a wonderfully 'in range' soap recipe. Are you using a new oil batch for these crumbly ones? Possibly an oil could have a contaminant? Whether or not your soap gels shouldn't matter as far as crumbliness goes IMHO. Gel will give a more translucent bar with a deeper colour and the soap firms up more quickly. Ungelled soap is creamier and takes a little longer to firm up. Try leaving your soap longer before unmoulding?

Tanya

 

[Lindy]

Hi Nettles and welcome fellow Canuck! Where is Jusseau? I'm from Alberta so know the province pretty good.

Now your question - I know that I have to adjust my recipes to what is going on with the climate. For instance - here on the coast it is really humid right now so I was having trouble with "soft" soaps so I adjusted my liquid content down and now the soaps are hard again. Alberta is really, really dry right now and depending on where you are in the province you've been having HUGE temperature swings - it looks like you're doing about a 10% Lye Discount (I would recommend 8%) and that you're water heavy so I don't understand why it would be crumbly. Are you adding anything else to the soap? Are you weighing the water before or after you've melted the snow?

Lindy

 

[carebear]

If your soaps are not producing heat in the mold then they aren't gelling - which makes them fragile until they harden up. Ungelled soaps might need DAYS in the mold, especially if you used a relatively weak lye solution.

And then it still needs more time to get hard. Lots more time.

By fragile I mean soft & crumbly (not dry crumbly like old cement, but rather like feta cheese kinda)

 

[nettles]

Hi All!

Thanks for replying. You've actually given me some hope. Maybe these soaps will turn out OK in the end, given enough time. About how long to leave in the mold - at first, I was unmolding as soon as 24 hours had passed. Then I found that I was jumping too soon, so I routinely give my soaps 2 nights insulated, even if it feels like it is done heating. There have been times when I saw that my soap was very soft, and creamy/crumbly, so I quickly apologized to it, covered it back up and left it longer.

BUT!!! There IS one other factor that I should have mentioned. I must be very slow, as this is only ringing a bell now. But all my problem soaps were scented with a cirtus essential oil. Hmmmm.... But I don't want to just give up my lemon and tangerine (and etc.) soaps. Has anybody else had problems with citrus oils?

Lindy, to answer your question - Joussard is right along the south shore of Lesser Slave Lake, about an hours drive west of the town of Slave Lake. And yes, we've had some wicked temperature swings. Nobody minds the upward swings, but the downward swings are sometimes hard to take. Thanks for letting me "talk out" my soap problems.

 

[SimplyE]

Hi Nettles!

Weird that you should post this. I have been having the EXACT same problem lately. I describe it as hard parmesan, though. My DH wanted to eat a chunk, since it looked just like it, too!

Anyway, I have always wanted my soaps to gel, but lately, I have been keeping it from gelling. I wait to cut it longer than I normally would with gelled soaps, and then when I cut, it crumbles and breaks especially on the bottom. I thought I was waiting too long...48 hours, and it was getting too hard, but I "think" that I need to wait longer. It is just hard to get out of that mind set.

Another question/observation to those out there. I am assuming that the only reason that we cut it as soon as we can is to get it to cure faster. I have seen a lot of soaps for sale lately at health stores that are logs and are cut to size. I assume that the longer you wait to cut, the better they cut??? Whole Foods has a soap display that looks like a cheese display with soap wheels. (sorry, I don't get out much. You all probably know about this already!)

Thanks for your timely post!

 

[kaseencook]

Maybe as a control for your recipe, you could take the recipe you are using and turn it into HP soap to rule out the possibility that it is your recipe causing problems. So if the HP soap turns out normal you will know that your issues are a result of how the CP soap cures (temp wise). I HP by putting traced soap into the oven at 100C for 1 hour with a stir at 30min and the soap comes out cured and hot and molds pretty well. When I am impatient to know how it is going to turn out I put it in the freezer for about an hour or so to cool it until hard (but not frozen ).