Crumbly soap with higher lye concentration?

[rainycityjen]

I've been experimenting with lye concentration levels lately, using this table as a guide: http://www.japudo.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/table-lye-concentration-Conc-Soda-En_520.jpg

My latest two batches were two different recipes. They both had palm and olive oil in common, but that's it. One I soaped with 33% lye concentration and the other I soaped with 30% lye concentration. Both turned out very similar: after 24 hours, they removed from the mold without tackiness. They even cut relatively clean. However, the edges of the cut bars were soft and crumbly and the bars were brittle; I could break them in half with two hands without a ton of pressure. Zap tested them and neither zapped, though they didn't taste mild. The 33% concentration soap had a texture like fuzzy crystals all over the surface. Again, no zap. Just weirdness. Also, I'm used to harder, more solid fresh bars ... are the lighter, softer bars normal for a higher lye concentration, or do I have a problem? I don't even know.

I checked my recipes and I didn't leave anything out, and my measurements were accurate. They were both around 50/50 unsat/sat oils. So what gives? I keep coming back to the water discount, but I'm open to insight.

 

[IrishLass]

That's very interesting indeed!

I normally soap with a 33% lye solution, and some of the things you have described sound a bit out of the norm to what I'm used to experiencing with my own batches.

Hmmmm......your description of the edges being 'soft and crumbly' sounds a lot like a soap that has gone through partial gel, where the gel did not quite reach all the way to the outer edges, which leaves them soft and crumbly like cream cheese until they play 'catch-up' during cure and become as hard as the insides of the bars. But the description of the bars being also brittle has me confused. Can you further explain what you mean by 'brittle'?

Re: the 'fuzzy crystal' phenomenon: It almost sounds like you are describing ash? Or do you think it is something else? Do you have a pic that you could post?

IrishLass

 

[rainycityjen]

That's very interesting indeed!

I normally soap with a 33% lye solution, and some of the things you have described sound a bit out of the norm to what I'm used to experiencing with my own batches.

Hmmmm......your description of the edges being 'soft and crumbly' sounds a lot like a soap that has gone through partial gel, where the gel did not quite reach all the way to the outer edges, which leaves them soft and crumbly like cream cheese until they play 'catch-up' during cure and become as hard as the insides of the bars. But the description of the bars being also brittle has me confused. Can you further explain what you mean by 'brittle'?

Re: the 'fuzzy crystal' phenomenon: It almost sounds like you are describing ash? Or do you think it is something else? Do you have a pic that you could post?

IrishLass

The fuzzy crystals weren't ash, I know that much... it wasn't opaque or ashy, it was a texture of the soap. Like, the soap itself had a slightly bubbly crystalline texture. Gah. May need to take photos. Anyway since that wasn't on both soaps, maybe was due to the silicone mold.

If it's a partial gel, I can't tell by the color. However, that explains why they're easy to unmold but soft on the edges.

By brittle, I guess I mean, not as solid and clay-like as my full water soaps. Definitely less solid-feeling. Maybe this is normal.

The first batch was in small cavity silicone mold and placed in a warm oven. The second one was in a silicone loaf mold and placed in a warm oven. Maybe the oven is overheating or overdrying?

I'm sticking them on a shelf to see if more cure time hardens them up.

At the end of the day, too many variables at play here. I'm going to stop putting them in the oven and stick to a known formula/method for a while if I up the LC.
http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[RhondaJ]

I think you'd have to make the same exact recipe, in the same type of molds, using the same processes, with different lye concentrations before you could know for sure if that's the cause of the differences in your soap.

There's so many different things that could be causing the issues....different recipe, cavity mold vs loaf mold, etc.

If you really want to see if a 30% lye concentration makes a difference in the end soap from a 33% I'd definitely say you need to not have so many other differences in the batches to really know.