CPOP How long to OP?

[The_Phoenix]

@The_Phoenix what are your temps and water:lye ratios when you soap?

I’ve occasionally insulated mine but haven’t paid attention to whether it helped with ash. And now that I’m using MB lye and soaping a lot cooler, I’m seeing way more of it, even with pretty low water. I don’t like how it looks after spraying with alcohol, which doesn’t seem to help anyway. And CPOP isn’t for me, either.

All that to say, I may need to make some experimental batches to see if more intentional insulating will help. Thanks!

2.0607:1 water:lye
Generally, room temperature or never hotter than low 90s. I've soaped at as low as 85 degrees. So, it's possible that no soda ash is a result of water:lye, or my temps. Regardless, I don't insulate to prevent soda ash. I suppose it's could just be a coincidence. ??

I mostly insulate because I want to be able to cut in 18-24 hours. And once I started to use my cooler to insulate, I just got in the habit of doing it. I've actually considered doing an experimental and NOT insulate, but every time I plan to skip that step, my habituated brain doesn't let me.

And I'm always reminded of the saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." If what you are doing works great for you, don't monkey with it. I think we all sometimes fall into the trap of questioning what we're doing because someone does it differently. I tell myself to stay true to what I like, what works for me, what I feel comfortable with, and not compare my process or the finished product to anyone else's.

I also don't like the look of my soaps after spraying with alcohol.

 

[AliOop]

Thank you, @The_Phoenix , that is all very helpful.

My understanding is that limiting exposure to air and lowering water ratios both help reduce ash, but lowering temps does the opposite bc it slows down saponification. Since insulating speeds it back up, I’m going to give that a try. Normally I’ll just drape a towel over it, but I have a lot of insulating bags that come with our grocery deliveries, plus some insulating foam that comes with our meat delivery. I’ll use those to rig something up. Thanks again!

 

[The_Phoenix]

Thank you, @The_Phoenix , that is all very helpful.

My understanding is that limiting exposure to air and lowering water ratios both help reduce ash, but lowering temps does the opposite bc it slows down saponification. Since insulating speeds it back up, I’m going to give that a try. Normally I’ll just drape a towel over it, but I have a lot of insulating bags that come with our grocery deliveries, plus some insulating foam that comes with our meat delivery. I’ll use those to rig something up. Thanks again!

I bet those insulating bags would work wonderfully. What a great out-of-the-box idea!

You are very welcome.

 

[linne1gi]

I CPOP every soap - I do a pretty steep water discount and in order for me to ensure complete gel, that's the only way I can do it. I preheat my oven when I start making my soap - when the soap is ready, I pop it in and turn the oven off. It usually stays until the next morning.

 

[linne1gi]

Thank you, @The_Phoenix , that is all very helpful.

My understanding is that limiting exposure to air and lowering water ratios both help reduce ash, but lowering temps does the opposite bc it slows down saponification. Since insulating speeds it back up, I’m going to give that a try. Normally I’ll just drape a towel over it, but I have a lot of insulating bags that come with our grocery deliveries, plus some insulating foam that comes with our meat delivery. I’ll use those to rig something up. Thanks again!

Soda ash (sodium carbonate) is from the unreacted lye in the soap reacting to the carbon dioxide in the air. You can: Lower your water amount (less water means more lye will react quicker), Pour at a thicker trace (again, more lye has reacted), and Cover your soap (plastic wrap is best, it totally keeps the air out) for up to 48 hours. I have never found that spraying with alcohol works.

 

[AlexanderMakesSoap]

Made a soap a couple of days ago at 42% lye conc and OP it in 170 F degree oven, turned off after putting ~37oz loaf in, left in till next morning - over 12 hours....still not quite fully gelled with about a 1/4 inch edge undone. Weird.

 

[linne1gi]

Made a soap a couple of days ago at 42% lye conc and OP it in 170 F degree oven, turned off after putting ~37oz loaf in, left in till next morning - over 12 hours....still not quite fully gelled with about a 1/4 inch edge undone. Weird.

A mistake in measuring? That's the most likely answer - A 42% lye solution is quite concentrated - should be soap in a couple of hours.

 

[AlexanderMakesSoap]

A mistake in measuring? That's the most likely answer - A 42% lye solution is quite concentrated - should be soap in a couple of hours.

I don't understand what you're saying - It is a soap, it's just not gelled all the way to the edge. High lye concentration soaps do tend to be trickier to fully gel...

 

[linne1gi]

I don't understand what you're saying - It is a soap, it's just not gelled all the way to the edge. High lye concentration soaps do tend to be trickier to fully gel...

OOPS!
Hm, so, my apologies, I read this wrong. I somehow thought you said the edges were liquid still. And yes I understand about OP high lye concentration soap - I have to CPOP all my soaps and my usual lye concentration is 37%.

 

[AlexanderMakesSoap]

OOPS!
Hm, so, my apologies, I read this wrong. I somehow thought you said the edges were liquid still. And yes I understand about OP high lye concentration soap - I have to CPOP all my soaps and my usual lye concentration is 37%.

Ahh, I see. Yeah, it's all soapified, just not gellified!

My guess is that the gel line will fade enough though and this soap will likely just be for personal use anyway, as I just wanted to use up some Indian almond oil we no longer use in our skincare shop.

 

[linne1gi]

Ahh, I see. Yeah, it's all soapified, just not gellified!

My guess is that the gel line will fade enough though and this soap will likely just be for personal use anyway, as I just wanted to use up some Indian almond oil we no longer use in our skincare shop.

And since it's the edges, maybe you can even plane it off later.

 

[AlexanderMakesSoap]

@AlexanderMakesSoap
As an aside, most soapmakers recommend against mixing lye solution in glass containers. The lye will eventually etch the glass and cause it to shatter. Cleaning up a caustic lye spill is bad enough without broken pieces of glass in it.

High quality stainless (expensive) or high-density polypropylene (cheap, shows #2 or #5 recycle number on bottom) are the best for mixing lye solution. If you don't have any of the latter lying around the house, the Dollar Store and thrift shops are great places to find these containers in all shapes and sizes.

Thanks again for the tip - turns out many of the raw ingredients we order (butters/clays) come in #2 containers, so I washed a few empties up and I'm ready to lye without the imminent threat of a shattery mess looming!

 

[linne1gi]

Thanks again for the tip - turns out many of the raw ingredients we order (butters/clays) come in #2 containers, so I washed a few empties up and I'm ready to lye without the imminent threat of a shattery mess looming!

Another tip, I was making liquid soap, using KOH and a #2 container - container bottom totally melted off and I was left with quite a mess to clean up. I no longer will use a #2 container, only #5 or stainless. Laboratory grade silicone is okay to use also.

 

[AlexanderMakesSoap]

Another tip, I was making liquid soap, using KOH and a #2 container - container bottom totally melted off and I was left with quite a mess to clean up. I no longer will use a #2 container, only #5 or stainless. Laboratory grade silicone is okay to use also.

Whoa! That sounds like a dangerous mess. HDPE should be ok up to ~250 F, from what I've read, at least for short periods of time, but perhaps the plastic loses strength over time...

 

[linne1gi]

Whoa! That sounds like a dangerous mess. HDPE should be ok up to ~250 F, from what I've read, at least for short periods of time, but perhaps the plastic loses strength over time...

I don't know why it happened. And you are right, HDPE should last. Maybe not with KOH? Anyways I've ditched all my #2 containers.