Couple of ROE questions

[Kittish]

So I just got some ROE, and mixed it with jojoba like Zany_in_CO suggested here and got some added to all my open jugs of soft oils.

First question, should I add it to my coconut oil as well? I buy the 76 degree, and it's warm enough right now that it's fully liquid at room temp.

Second question- any potential benefit to adding ROE to essential oils? I'm thinking specifically lavender, since I'm getting the idea that it tends to oxidize fairly easily and I've got a large bottle of it... (One of those wish I knew then things. I'd have bought a MUCH smaller bottle.)

Ok, one more question- should I break the seals on unopened jugs of oil to add ROE? I've got RBO that's likely to be stored (in a cool, dark cabinet) for close to a year thanks to their free shipping offer a few weeks back.

 

[dibbles]

If you haven't already found it, here is DeeAnna's advice on using ROE.
https://classicbells.com/soap/ROE.html

Coconut oil has a decent shelf life, and I go through it quickly enough that I've never added ROE. Mine never gets liquidy enough to do it anyway.

I wouldn't open the bottles of oil to add ROE. Or are you talking about mass quantities that will take you years to use up?

I haven't any idea about adding it to essential oils. I'm not sure it would be beneficial, because they don't contain fats, but I honestly don't know.

 

[Nao]

I've been thinking about adding ROE or some other antioxidant to my EOs too, since even the smallest bottles will take me years to use up. But I don't really have experience or knowledge to really know if it's a good idea.

 

[Kittish]

I hadn't found that one yet, thank you dibbles. I expect my rice bran oil will take me a year, maybe a bit more to use since I ordered six gallons during Riceland's free shipping offer back in June (almost two months on, and I'm still working on the first jug). That's the only oil I have in that kind of quantity. Most of the others common oils I buy locally one or two jugs at a time as needed.

I think I'm going to split my lavender EO into some smaller bottles and add the ROE to one or two of them, then shove one of those along with one without the ROE to the back of a cabinet for a year or so, see what happens. The other with ROE I'll use and see if it has any immediate effects on the lavender (I don't expect it to).

 

[DeeAnna]

I don't think using ROE in essential oils is a good idea. EOs are not oils in the traditional sense -- they are volatile chemical compounds that happen to be fat soluble, not water soluble. Fat soluble doesn't mean they're actually fats/oils. A related example -- Alcohol is highly water soluble, but it isn't the same as water.

Robert Tisserand, a noted expert and author in the EO field, has never suggested using antioxidants, including ROE, in essential oils. I have never heard of any other authorities on EOs advocating the use of ROE in EOs either -- including Valerie Ann Worwood, Julia Lawless, Marge Clark, etc. If Tisserand and these others are not on this bandwagon, I would be wary about this idea. The experts recommend storing EOs properly -- cool to cold temps, avoid light, and exclude as much oxygen as possible. And understand and accept they have a shelf life.

If you are using EOs for their health benefits, you need to accept they are at their best for only a limited amount of time, just like any other medicine.

 

[Kittish]

You make some good points DeeAnna, but oxidation is not limited to fats and oils. It happens in all sorts of materials. I've seen here mentions of lavender being a likely culprit in the formation of DOS and general rancidity. This means the lavender EO is oxidizing, which leads me to wonder if ROE might help slow or prevent it. That's the only EO I'm considering adding ROE to.

I'll conduct the experiment I outlined in the post above (slightly modified): put about half an ounce of lavender EO each into two clean amber glass bottles (I have half ounce bottles, so excess air exposure shouldn't be problematic) and add ROE to one, then shove them both to the back of a cabinet for a while. Leave myself a note or something to check on them about every six months, until one or both develop an off smell.

I have to wonder if any of the authors and authorities you mention have ever tried ROE in EOs. It may be that it's a case of "everyone knows" something that turns out not to be not actually accurate. At any rate, doing the experiment won't cost me anything but a few drops of ROE and potentially an ounce or so of a not-too-costly EO. And however it turns out I'll learn something.

I'm using EOs purely for the scent, I'm not after any of the therapeutic benefits.

 

[dibbles]

Kittish, you should do your experiment if you are interested in finding out the results. If you do find something, please post. But, I have to wonder...if the recommended usage rate for ROE is 1 gram for 1000 grams of oils - how are you going to add that miniscule amount of ROE to 1/2 (or even 1 ounce) of EO? I hope I phrased that right. I am wondering how you will even know how much you are adding - even my gram scale wouldn't measure that small of an amount.

 

[Kittish]

Kittish, you should do your experiment if you are interested in finding out the results. If you do find something, please post. But, I have to wonder...if the recommended usage rate for ROE is 1 gram for 1000 grams of oils - how are you going to add that miniscule amount of ROE to 1/2 (or even 1 ounce) of EO? I hope I phrased that right. I am wondering how you will even know how much you are adding - even my gram scale wouldn't measure that small of an amount.

Measure how many grams of lavender EO wind up in my bottle, times 1000 to convert to mg, then do a bit of math to find out how many mg of the ROE I'd need (figure a .05% rate, kind of middle of the road), then multiply that by 3 to get my actual amount of the 33% dilution I made with jojoba. Then whip out my milligram scale and measure that out and add to the EO. It should work out to be about a drop, maybe two.

 

[DeeAnna]

You make some good points DeeAnna, but oxidation is not limited to fats and oils....

Yes, I get that. I'm not arguing that they don't oxidize. I'm just saying ROE is not the solution to this particular issue.

I have to wonder if any of the authors and authorities you mention have ever tried ROE in EOs. It may be that it's a case of "everyone knows" something that turns out not to be not actually accurate....

I suggest you ask them. Tisserand is responsive to reasonable inquiries. I know Marge Clark is too. And they aren't people who blindly accept what "everyone knows" -- they're serious researchers in the field.

 

[soapmaker]

Perhaps this isn't too helpful but my experience with any soap with Lavender eo begins to get dos at about 3 months so my remedy was to add .1 oz roe to any 5 lb. (oils) soap batch I make. Never had dos since. My lavender eo typically lasts a year. The same happens to my soap with peppermint or spearmint eo so the remedy is the same. Fixed the problem!

 

[DeeAnna]

I think it's very helpful to add ROE to triglyceride fats for storage or to the soap as one makes it. I like to add ROE to a lot of my soaping fats right away so they're protected during storage, rather than wait until I use them for soaping. I am especially want to add ROE to fats that have a limited shelf life and to my home rendered lard and tallow. And if I can, I store these fats in the fridge for even more protection. Other fats that are naturally longer lived and tend to be solid in my climate, such as coconut oil, I generally don't worry too much about adding ROE. And commercial lard and tallow already have antioxidants and other preservatives, so I don't bother with them either.

 

[soapmaker]

Yes, I do the same, especially grapeseed oil, adding roe as soon as I open and then it goes in the fridge.