Cottonseed oil? And adding lather

[Lin]

I was wondering who uses cottonseed oil? Does it add to the lather of the soap? Do you use pure cottonseed oil, or are you using it in the form of shortening mixed with soy? Pluses or negatives of using it alone or in shortening form with soy?

I have a recipe I'm ALMOST satisfied with for my pumpkin soap. But I want to improve the lather for other people. When using it alone and not using a pouf etc, it has a thick creamy lather similar to castile but without the slime. I have no palm in this recipe and do not want to add it, I'm wanting to keep this recipe vegan, and I already have the coconut at 20 and don't want to increase it further.

So my thoughts based on comparing my recipe to my other recipes and to information on the properties of oils include the following considerations:

Add in cottonseed oil.
Add in peanut oil (based on single oil results from Curious Soapmaker, but this one also brings personal concerns about rancidity and nut allergies. I have read that refined peanut oil is not supposed to contain the allergens any longer)
Add canola oil
Swap the cocoa butter already in the recipe for Mango butter (for stearic)

 

[Obsidian]

Cottonseed oil has a 0 for bubbly on soapcal, not sure if it will really help your recipe.

 

[Lin]

Reading some of the websites that list oil properties said cottonseed oil helps lather. I can't remember which ones specifically, I've probably got 10 saved lol. I don't remember which type of lather its said to help (e.g. coconut for large bubbles, palm for creamy stable lather).

ETA: Ah here we go, found one: http://home.windstream.net/familyjeans/propertiesofoils.htm Cottonseed oil - most commonly combined with soy shortening (i.e. Crisco) because the composition is similar. Provides a quick and abundant lather, but a softer soap.

The lather in this soap also takes a little bit to get going, so that was part of what interested me.

 

[lpstephy85]

According to Natures Garden Oil Characteristics "It can be used as part of your recipe (10-15%) and will help give a moisturizing, stable, and silky lather. May be prone to rancidity, so proper storage is a must." Doesn't seem like it boosts the lather but has more of an olive oil characteristic but with the higher rancidity.

http://www.naturesgardencandles.com/mas_assets/pdf/soapoils.pdf

 

[Lin]

Thanks, I have that link though. I'm pretty sure I have every one on Soap oil properties that exists online lol. That's why I'm asking here for personal experience on the cottonseed part, and then suggestions on improving lather within my limits.

Many of the sites that list properties in Soap have contradictory information, or downright mistakes. Personal experience can vary so much, and those lists aren't fully inclusive either! Like the single oil results of peanut oil on lather, very surprising. I wish I had the funds to do more experimentation myself but I just don't. So I turn to the personal experience of others as a starting point.

 

[ca_soap]

Have you considered Castor Oil or do you already have Castor Oil in the recipe?

 

[Lin]

Woops, I meant to mention castor oil in the op, thanks! There is no castor in the last batch I made because I was out at the time but yea I plan to put 5% castor in.

 

[Margo]

I used cottonseed oil in my soap recipes and am happy with the results. It has its own wonderful aroma. I have just started using cottonseed oil in my lotions and creams. No scent added because it has its own unique scent.
20% Coconut Oil is sufficient for lather. Any more would cause a drying effect on the skin.

I don't use cocoa butter because it is expensive. I like the feel of the mango butter better

 

[topofmurrayhill]

Thanks, I have that link though. I'm pretty sure I have every one on Soap oil properties that exists online lol.

You are getting stuck in the "properties of oils" mindset and missing the matter of balance. Your source suggests cottonseed oil adds lather but makes the soap soft. Actually, it doesn't do squat for lather on its own. When you make the soap softer, all things being equal, it will have more lather because there is more soap being dispersed. That's fine if you don't mind your soap melting away quickly in the shower, while the bars waiting their turn get orange spots.

For the most part, oils don't have particularly distinct properties in soap. They simply contribute fatty acids to the mix and the fatty acids have properties as soap. Polyunsaturated oils like peanut and cottonseed contribute linoleic acid, the property of which is to be soap mush that turns rancid. That is why they are not soaping oils and for the most part, nobody in the grand sweep of history has chosen to use them for that purpose except under duress, perhaps when nothing else affordable is available.

To summarize, getting more lather by adding mush to the recipe is not the best approach. Stick to soaping oils. If you want to experiment with polyunsaturated oil, you can use frying oils and whatnot in small quantities.

You make soaps hard and lasting by using saturated fats. Coconut oil and PKO contribute saturated lauric and myristic acid, which make bubbly lather. You can use more of them in a hard soap. Other hard oils contribute stearic and palmitic, which make creamy lather. To help bring out the lathering properties of a good, hard bar of soap, you can add a solubilizer like 5% or so of castor oil or a few teaspoons of sugar. Or try some linoleic oil if you like, but only a small amount.

I understand that this advice doesn't lead to the highest conditioning number in Soapcalc. That is because the conditioning number is BS and you have to stop paying attention to it AT ALL if you want to learn to formulate good soap recipes. It is purely distracting and misleading because it is based on the assumptions that (1) softer soap is milder for the skin, and (2) oleic oils and linoleic oils are equivalent in what they bring to soap. Since both those assumptions are wrong, the number is useless.

 

[lsg]

Did you know that the original Crisco was mostly cotton seed oil. The makers' initial intent was to completely harden oils for use as raw material for making soap.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisco

 

[topofmurrayhill]

Did you know that the original Crisco was mostly cotton seed oil. The makers' initial intent was to completely harden oils for use as raw material for making soap.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisco

I have read that.

Hydrogenation would convert linoleic acid to oleic and trans-oleic acid, and oleic acid to stearic acid. As you can see, Soapcalc has the wrong fatty acid values for the original shortening. They are the same as for unhydrogenated cottonseed oil. The lower iodine value implies a significant change in the fatty acid profile.

The new version avoids the trans-oleic by using a fully hydrogenated palm oil that contains only saturated fatty acids (palmitic and stearic) and then mixing it with linoleic oil. Only unsaturated fatty acids can have those trans- versions.

 

[cmzaha]

Here is a good link to some single oil soap tests http://alchemyandashes.blogspot.com...s has a terrible conditioner but is wonderful

 

[penelopejane]

Here is a good link to some single oil soap tests http://alchemyandashes.blogspot.com...hat review doesn't cover Cottonseed oil :cry: