Coronavirus

[Susie]

@szaza Yes, I know those studies took place, I live in one of the areas where they were taking place and we heard daily how many thousands of people had joined those studies locally. And my neighbor down the street (I live about 1 hour away from the testing center) was one of them. She does not work and wanted to do her bit to help. But it took her all day every time she went due to the sheer amount of people that were participating in the study.

And I have not heard of an encephalitis yet, either. Nor meningitis. And although Zinc has been proven to some (small) degree as causing a mild reduction of rhinovirus (head cold) count in the pharynx (throat), I really can't find a lot of supporting data from any sources I trust regarding it's efficacy for Co-vid. I will continue to look, though, as there is always new information out there.

 

[Talispa1]

The inventor of Vaseline, Robert Chesebrough, believed in the product so much that he ate a spoonful of it every day.

More importantly we should be talking about Radithor. It could hold the key to ending questionable COVID-19 treatments.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radithor

 

[AliOop]

I'm confused by this statement. The vaccine approval is based on double-blind, randomized, placebo controlled studies with tens of thousands of participants.

Why would it need to cross the blood-brain barrier? I haven't heard much about covid-19 encefalitis (yet).

Sorry, you are correct, the trials do meet those tests. They just aren't long-term, which was the point I was trying to make (apparently not as clearly as I thought). The lack of long-term studies compounds my concern with the separate C19 vaccine reporting adverse event system, the results of which are not public, as the VAERS system is. There are reports by doctors saying their adverse event submissions are being denied or removed.

Without long-term trials, without access to all adverse event statistics, and with large numbers of medical professionals here in the US walking off the job due to vaccine mandates, the public will continue to be skeptical about efficacy and safety.

Thank you for also catching another misstatement. The HCQ is not for the purpose of helping the zinc cross the blood-brain barrier, but to more effectively work on an intra-cellular level. I don't have access at the moment to where this was explained in more accurate medical terms, but I will come back and edit this when I do.

@rdc1978 to continue our previous discussion, I did find one paper here that explains the serious methodological concerns regarding the now-withdrawn study that claimed HCQ would be dangerous for C19 patients. The author of this paper concludes that the study data was deliberately manipulated in order to prove something the study authors wanted to prove.

@Susie I hope you will consider reading the attached article by Dr. Harvey A. Risch, Department of Chronic Disease Epidemiology, Yale School of Public Health, which was published in the American Journal of Epidemiology. He acknowledges that the studies showing efficacy of the HCQ protocol are small, and he urges more long-term studies (some of which are underway). So he is not ignoring established medical standards for legitimizing treatments. He is, however, urging that we don't ignore the astounding efficacy shown in these several small studies, when the recommended protocol is used for early treatment. I find that approach very reasonable and thoughtful.

@Talispa1 I am not sure if you were attempting to be humorous, or suggesting that these doctors are prescribing the equivalent of liquid poison. If it is the former, thank you for helping us lighten up. If it is the latter, well, I hope you will read the article I attached below. These doctors are using very safe drugs that are taken by multiple millions around the world for other illnesses - hardly the equivalent of drinking radioactive water. EDIT: I just realized that you might have been comparing the vaccines to the radioactive water, not the treatment protocol I was discussing. Hopefully you can clarify?

 

[rdc1978]

@AliOop - I don't take the concerns about methodology lightly but I think it's unreasonable to make the jump to malice.

From what I can tell the concerns are threefold, and are centered around the idea that because not all of the studied cases were of the same severity the results cannot be trusted.

And that becsuse some of the patients in in the untreated group had been treated with azrithromiacian it was not fair to call them untreated.

I doubt these are best practices in formulating a study and I can see why the underlying data set was suspicious. But the tone of the response? seems weirdly aggressive for someone who is just hanging out facts. IMO.

 

[szaza]

@Susie there's a test site close to me as well. I got an email that they were looking for participants in phase 3 trials for J&J early this year (jan/feb) but I got my invitation to get vaccinated around the same time (so no risk of placebo) and therefore didn't sign up.

@AliOop the vaccine trials have been set up to monitor adverse events in the timeframe in which they are expected to occur, based on experience with other vaccines (as stated earlier, super long-term effects, years after vaccination have never occurred). So I'm wondering what kind of timeframe you're thinking about when you talk about long-term effects? Please keep in mind that if a vaccine takes a long time to develop, that doesn't necessarily mean that phase 3 clinical trial participants have been monitored for a longer time.

Another thing that has been bugging me a bit about the 'we don't know the long-term side effects of vaccination' argument is that besides the fact that we don't have reason to believe covid vaccines might cause side effects besides the ones we already know of, we have ample evidence that a covid infection does come with a significant risk of long term side effects. I fail to see how vaccines are still considered to be the 'dangerous' option between the two.

I will come back and edit this when I do.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

Our freestanding ERs and hospital based ERs are administering monoclonal antibodies (casirivimab and imdevimab) to anyone who has an oxygen saturation (SpO2) of 90% or less, then sending them home with oxygen. Our hospitals are just that full.

Wow! That is bad. It is so disheartening. One of my nieces lives in the Houston area. She and her husband have both been vaccinated, but their young children (4 & 2 months) are not. How bad is it there? Should I be praying extra hard for them?

Another thing that has been bugging me a bit about the 'we don't know the long-term side effects of vaccination' argument is that besides the fact that we don't have reason to believe covid vaccines might cause side effects besides the ones we already know of, we have ample evidence that a covid infection does come with a significant risk of long term side effects. I fail to see how vaccines are still considered to be the 'dangerous' option between the two.

This thought is stated so much better than I stated it, but that was my final conclusion when it came to making a decision about getting the vaccine.

 

[Susie]

Wow! That is bad. It is so disheartening. One of my nieces lives in the Houston area. She and her husband have both been vaccinated, but their young children (4 & 2 months) are not. How bad is it there? Should I be praying extra hard for them?

It's bad. I heard on the news that there were only two pediatric ICU beds available, but I did not catch which city. Texas needs all the prayers it can get.

I ran across this article just now: Video: Idaho Doctor Makes Baseless Claims About Safety of COVID-19 Vaccines - FactCheck.org

And this: Texas Poison Center Calls Triple for People Treating COVID-19 With Ivermectin

And sadly, this: Houston reports first pediatric Covid-19 death in youth with no underlying conditions

Off topic briefly, Louisiana is staring down the throat of a Cat 4 Hurricane Ida this Sunday evening. All prayers are welcome.

 

[melinda48]

This doesn't sound right. But where are these doctors? What vaccine did these hospitalized patients have? I have daily access to some of the best and most current information out there, and this is not what was reported in the UK (as of end of July) or the US.

HCQ was used in Vietnam to prevent malaria (50 years ago). My husband and his Marine comrades were dosed daily. Semi-daily - he tells me it gave them the “runs” and so they tried to avoid taking it as they were instructed. There have been zero ill effects from this drug. Doesn’t matter which vaccine they took, if they have type-two diabetes, are obese, have any lung-related issues, they are far more susceptible to Covid. We are not give the information we need to make a well-informed decision. My husband and I wear masks when requested; otherwise, we do not. We try to get at least 20 minutes a day in the outdoors (preferably when the sun is shining for the vitamin D), neither of us has a co-morbidity. We live as we always have and hope it is enough - and yes, we have both taken the vaccine. I think he got Pfizer; I got Moderna.

 

[rdc1978]

HCQ was used in Vietnam to prevent malaria (50 years ago). My husband and his Marine comrades were dosed daily. Semi-daily - he tells me it gave them the “runs” and so they tried to avoid taking it as they were instructed. There have been zero ill effects from this drug. Doesn’t matter which vaccine they took, if they have type-two diabetes, are obese, have any lung-related issues, they are far more susceptible to Covid. We are not give the information we need to make a well-informed decision. My husband and I wear masks when requested; otherwise, we do not. We try to get at least 20 minutes a day in the outdoors (preferably when the sun is shining for the vitamin D), neither of us has a co-morbidity. We live as we always have and hope it is enough - and yes, we have both taken the vaccine. I think he got Pfizer; I got Moderna.

More susceptible to contracting covid or to experiencing long term effects/hospitalization even when vaccinated? Is there a source for this information?

Here is a list of potential HCQ side effects.

https://www.drugs.com/sfx/hydroxychloroquine-side-effects.html#consumer

 

[ClarityArtisanSoaps]

I'm confused by this statement. The vaccine approval is based on double-blind, randomized, placebo controlled studies with tens of thousands of participants.
For example, here's the phase 3 trial publication of the pfizer vaccine:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33301246/And this is Moderna:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33378609/And Johnson:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33882225/@TheGecko maybe you find these interesting as well.


Why would it need to cross the blood-brain barrier? I haven't heard much about covid-19 encefalitis (yet).

i got the booster (autoimmune) ra, hashis, ugh this one was awful! no one allowed in without a mask!

More susceptible to contracting covid or to experiencing long term effects/hospitalization even when vaccinated? Is there a source for this information?

Here is a list of potential HCQ side effects.

https://www.drugs.com/sfx/hydroxychloroquine-side-effects.html#consumer

i take this too

i take this too

autoimmune disoreders can make u tired thats why the is coffee

 

[Susie]

I have a call in to my hematologist to get on the list for a booster. I know it will be only a month or so earlier than everyone else can get it, but I am immunocompromised, so we don't know how much immunity my body produced by the first two vaccines. We really need a titer to check how much immunity someone has. With the huge push to just get a vaccine and tests out, I don't think anyone thought to test to see how much immunity someone develops.

I am just really grateful I work from home. They closed my office until further notice due to too many people needing to be quarantined all at the same time. And that is just one of our DFW offices, there are two others closed also. I, however, just keep making my five step commute to the office and clock in.

 

[Bubble Agent]

I am so sorry for everyone who is affected by this pandemic.

I am so incredibly grateful that I am so blessed to be fully vaccinated. Not because I expect the vaccine to protect me 100% against covid, but it makes the likelyhood of me getting deadly ill from it at least lowered.
I have a set of complex health issues and got recently diagnosed with a lung decease that makes me high risk. I am SO glad I never smoked, can`t imagine even being alive if I had done that, when I live every day struggling with this issue the way I do!

I still wear a mask when I have to go to the grocery store, and when I am at a mall etc, because my lung specialist told me it would absolutely lower the risk for me, now that so many are getting sloppy.

ETA: I am also gratefull that I can still make soaps! I don`t get sick by soaping, only straining myself. If I could not make soaps I would go into a depression me thinks. Silver linings, people. lol

 

[TheGecko]

Without long-term trials, without access to all adverse event statistics, and with large numbers of medical professionals here in the US walking off the job due to vaccine mandates, the public will continue to be skeptical about efficacy and safety.

It is concerning when medical professionals are risking/have risked...their jobs rather than be vaccinated.

I have an appointment next Thursday to get vaccinated...not because I have 'seen the light' or feel comfortable about the vaccine, but because hubby has an important doctor's appointment coming up and I've been told that I can't attend because I'm not vaccinated, and I would need to be vaccinated at least two weeks prior. They won't accept a negative test, or allow me to sit in the parking lot to attend telephonically.

I can't even begin to express how much I HATE (not a word I use lightly) this!

 

[rdc1978]

I am just really grateful I work from home. They closed my office until further notice due to too many people needing to be quarantined all at the same time. And that is just one of our DFW offices, there are two others closed also. I, however, just keep making my five step commute to the office and clock in.

I feel this statement in my soul!

We only ever went into the office once a week, but once things got serious we stayed home and I'm so grateful.

The elevator situation alone would be a disaster.

Before the rise of Corona The administration had been trying to take away our right to teleworking in the new contract but an arbitration board struck it down.

Interestingly their argument failed, in part because people were actually much more productive at home.

I think there was an assumption that people slack off when they work from home, but it's not true.

If anything people don't have the distractions like donuts, lunch planning that starts at 9am and constant drop bys for a chat.

And I think, at least in our case, people are so happy to have the opportunity to work from home that they are conscientious and do not abuse it.

 

[melinda48]

It's bad. I heard on the news that there were only two pediatric ICU beds available, but I did not catch which city. Texas needs all the prayers it can get.

I ran across this article just now: Video: Idaho Doctor Makes Baseless Claims About Safety of COVID-19 Vaccines - FactCheck.org

And this: Texas Poison Center Calls Triple for People Treating COVID-19 With Ivermectin

And sadly, this: Houston reports first pediatric Covid-19 death in youth with no underlying conditions

Off topic briefly, Louisiana is staring down the throat of a Cat 4 Hurricane Ida this Sunday evening. All prayers are welcome.

I only glossed over the article, but some things stood out to me.
First of all, most of the studies included are pre-print, in other words not yet peer-reviewed. Obviously preprints are important during a pandemic, when you want to know results quickly, but it's something to keep in mind.
Furthermore, if you look at the graphs of the meta-analysis (statistical compilation of data from different studies), only 2 studies had statistically significant outcomes. One of those (Elgazzar et al.) recently got retracted over suspicions of plagiarism and data falsification. The other one is getting an awful lot of weight, being the only study in a category.
Lastly, only 3 studies get a perfect score when it comes to bias/study quality, only one of those is included in the meta-analysis and that one is actually reporting a possible negative effect of ivermectin on all-cause mortality.
I think it is concerns like these that prevent most doctors from gladly jumping on the ivermectin bandwagon (even though they probably wished they could, because we all crave a miracle cure).

Were they referring to an overdose quantity of ivermectin? It will always cause death if heavily over-dosed. Aside from that, it is an outstanding addition to HCQ from what I have heard from several doctors.

It is concerning when medical professionals are risking/have risked...their jobs rather than be vaccinated.

I have an appointment next Thursday to get vaccinated...not because I have 'seen the light' or feel comfortable about the vaccine, but because hubby has an important doctor's appointment coming up and I've been told that I can't attend because I'm not vaccinated, and I would need to be vaccinated at least two weeks prior. They won't accept a negative test, or allow me to sit in the parking lot to attend telephonically.

I can't even begin to express how much I HATE (not a word I use lightly) this!

I understand. It is beyond frustrating. And the ridiculous thing is this virus (in several forms) will be with us for decades. There is no such thing as a magic bullet or miracle cure.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I feel this statement in my soul!

We only ever went into the office once a week, but once things got serious we stayed home and I'm so grateful.

The elevator situation alone would be a disaster.

Before the rise of Corona The administration had been trying to take away our right to teleworking in the new contract but an arbitration board struck it down.

Interestingly their argument failed, in part because people were actually much more productive at home.

I think there was an assumption that people slack off when they work from home, but it's not true.

If anything people don't have the distractions like donuts, lunch planning that starts at 9am and constant drop bys for a chat.

And I think, at least in our case, people are so happy to have the opportunity to work from home that they are conscientious and do not abuse it.

Much prefer to work from home - I can do everything from here including meeting with students via Zoom. I do find that my work day changes though, in that I don't work for a concentrated period of time like I would if I was at work - rather I spread my work out across the day/evening, interspersed with bits of 'home' stuff. Sometimes I'm still doing work at 11.30 pm!

 

[rdc1978]

Much prefer to work from home - I can do everything from here including meeting with students via Zoom. I do find that my work day changes though, in that I don't work for a concentrated period of time like I would if I was at work - rather I spread my work out across the day/evening, interspersed with bits of 'home' stuff. Sometimes I'm still doing work at 11.30 pm!

My sister is a teacher and she does her work in a similar way!

I imagine you're getting your work done as good, if not better, and that its in a way that works for you! It takes all types to make the world go around, and it seems like technology is increasingly allowing people to work in a way that is better for them and just as good, if not better, for the employer. Although, I HAAAAAATE how I look on zoom! I either need a ring light or botox!

 

[Nona'sFarm]

It's bad. I heard on the news that there were only two pediatric ICU beds available, but I did not catch which city. Texas needs all the prayers it can get.

I ran across this article just now: Video: Idaho Doctor Makes Baseless Claims About Safety of COVID-19 Vaccines - FactCheck.org

And this: Texas Poison Center Calls Triple for People Treating COVID-19 With Ivermectin

And sadly, this: Houston reports first pediatric Covid-19 death in youth with no underlying conditions

Off topic briefly, Louisiana is staring down the throat of a Cat 4 Hurricane Ida this Sunday evening. All prayers are welcome.

Wow, too much - going to have to turn off the news for awhile, send prayers and donations - covid, hurricane, Afghanistan, the unrelenting heat....

 

[Nona'sFarm]

I have a call in to my hematologist to get on the list for a booster. I know it will be only a month or so earlier than everyone else can get it, but I am immunocompromised, so we don't know how much immunity my body produced by the first two vaccines. We really need a titer to check how much immunity someone has. With the huge push to just get a vaccine and tests out, I don't think anyone thought to test to see how much immunity someone develops.

I am just really grateful I work from home. They closed my office until further notice due to too many people needing to be quarantined all at the same time. And that is just one of our DFW offices, there are two others closed also. I, however, just keep making my five step commute to the office and clock in.

My understanding is there is a way to check your level of immunity, but it must be hard to get for whatever reason. One of my friends, here in Virginia, USA, just got her third shot. She has an autoimmune disease. As she stated, it was to bring her immunity up to a "normal " person's.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

It is concerning when medical professionals are risking/have risked...their jobs rather than be vaccinated.

I have an appointment next Thursday to get vaccinated...not because I have 'seen the light' or feel comfortable about the vaccine, but because hubby has an important doctor's appointment coming up and I've been told that I can't attend because I'm not vaccinated, and I would need to be vaccinated at least two weeks prior. They won't accept a negative test, or allow me to sit in the parking lot to attend telephonically.

I can't even begin to express how much I HATE (not a word I use lightly) this!

I am sorry you are forced to do something you feel strongly conflicted about. Nobody likes to be forced to do anything. As always, best wishes to you and your husband. Hope his medical procedure has a positive outcome.