Conditioning Help (please and thank you)

[IrishLass]

Yes- they were half-brothers. David was the son of Jack Cassidy and his first wife (before he married Shirley Jones). Sean Cassidy is the son of Shirley Jones and Jack Cassidy.


IrishLass

 

[Lin19687]

Of the 4 I listed? No, not yet. I have made several prior to getting me (and us) to this conversation. Maybe this opens a completely separate can of worms but I have never bought into the whole 4 - 6 weeks curing time thing. I understand the evap but all of my soaps have worked after a few days of resting. By the time I get to bar 4, 4 - 6 weeks have elapsed and I really haven't seen/smelt/felt any real significant difference.

There is a world of difference at 4-6-2 months in soap bars. They 'drying' part is one of the main thing.

I am sure someone else will pop in here and explain it to you. You might want to read up on the 'cure' process......

 

[Alfa_Lazcares]

Curing soap

https://classicbells.com/soap/cure.html

Because we know she can explain this better, at least, than me haha.

 

[IrishLass]

Maybe this opens a completely separate can of worms but I have never bought into the whole 4 - 6 weeks curing time thing. I understand the evap but all of my soaps have worked after a few days of resting. By the time I get to bar 4, 4 - 6 weeks have elapsed and I really haven't seen/smelt/felt any real significant difference.

My fully gelled CP soaps work pretty good as soon as I unmold them 18 hours after pour, too, but they are much milder and bubblier and more pleasant to use after 4 weeks have gone by. Seeing as how your original formula was formulated to be super bubbly, super hard, and super cleansing, I can see how you may not have felt a significant difference 4 - 6 weeks down the road, and I don't think I would have either because of how high cleansing it is. An overly high cleansing soap formula will still feel as drying 4-6 weeks or months down the road as it does at birth because of it's formulation. I bet if you make a more skin-friendly, less over-the-top bubbly/cleansing formula, the differences as the weeks go by will be more noticeable.


IrishLass

 

[KiwiMoose]

 

[dibbles]

I'll just add that I too use sugar in most of my batches, and I don't find that it accelerates. Why do you add your sodium lactate at trace? I add it to the cooled lye water before it goes into the oils.

 

[KiwiMoose]

How does sodium lactate affect acceleration, if at all? I have a bottle here that I’ve never used.

 

[IrishLass]

I use sodium lactate in most of my batches and have never experienced acceleration with it. I use it in 60% solution form.


IrishLass

 

[Dawni]

So we must be the only 3 to get the Shaun Cassidy reference. Everyone else is going "who"? A co-worker recently did not know what a VHS tape was when shown one.... Young whippersnappers!

I know the song, not who he is lol
Also I was alive (and watching Disney) before the VHS replaced the "Betamax" but I'm not sure if that's what you guys also call it hehe

Maybe this opens a completely separate can of worms but I have never bought into the whole 4 - 6 weeks curing time thing. I understand the evap but all of my soaps have worked after a few days of resting. By the time I get to bar 4, 4 - 6 weeks have elapsed and I really haven't seen/smelt/felt any real significant difference.

Hallo there and welcome.. I've kept away because you'll get better advice from the others but I just wanted to say that you should give the waiting a try.

The differences are way more noticeable if you're not testing them every other day or something. Most soaps if done properly will "work" in a few days, sooner if you HP but they won't be the best they could be. I'm also still a newbie, and I inadvertently discovered this to be true when I had to be away from home for 3wks.

The soaps I came back to weren't the ones I left. Haha of course that's an exaggeration but I'm not kidding when I say it's true. Soap gets better over time, proven now, not just advice.. Like whiskey

 

[jcandleattic]

Shaun Cassidy was in The Hardy Boys with Steven Parkinson. Back in my preteen/early teen days my friend would swoon over Shaun and I would swoon over Steven. I think I remember him most for being on the cover of Teen Beat, HAHAHAHA

As for the topic at hand. ITA with most on this thread. Lower your high cleansing oils, don't worry about "bubbly lather" so much, and give your bars a nice cure. With those few tweaks I bet you will be amazed at what you find.
Think of soap like you would a fine cheese, wine, and/or whiskey - all get better with age.

 

[Ralph Deitrick]

...is adding a chelator to my formula in the form of tetrasodium EDTA. Another one that works well is sodium citrate. It's used at only a small % (I use .5% tetrasodium EDTA as per the total weight of my soap) and it's amazing how my lather has perked up. Just thought I'd share.

How/when is the chelator added? Any reactions that I need to be prepared for? Is the usage rate pretty standard for all chelators? Just so you know, I'll probably use the sodium citrate because there are other uses for it in the kitchen. The possibilities for a "sour salt" are fascinating!

 

[Lin19687]

How/when is the chelator added? Any reactions that I need to be prepared for? Is the usage rate pretty standard for all chelators? Just so you know, I'll probably use the sodium citrate because there are other uses for it in the kitchen. The possibilities for a "sour salt" are fascinating!

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/search/2010643/?q=chelators&o=relevance&c[node]=11
taken from the search of the lye section

 

[Ralph Deitrick]

My fully gelled CP soaps work pretty good as soon as I unmold them 18 hours after pour, too, but they are much milder and bubblier and more pleasant to use after 4 weeks have gone by. Seeing as how your original formula was formulated to be super bubbly, super hard, and super cleansing, I can see how you may not have felt a significant difference 4 - 6 weeks down the road, and I don't think I would have either because of how high cleansing it is. An overly high cleansing soap formula will still feel as drying 4-6 weeks or months down the road as it does at birth because of it's formulation. I bet if you make a more skin-friendly, less over-the-top bubbly/cleansing formula, the differences as the weeks go by will be more noticeable.


IrishLass

I'll just add that I too use sugar in most of my batches, and I don't find that it accelerates. Why do you add your sodium lactate at trace? I add it to the cooled lye water before it goes into the oils.

I have always added all my additions at trace. One of the downfalls of living in a vacuum . I will start working more with the cooled lye water now though.

 

[penelopejane]

Soap gets better over time, proven now, not just advice.. Like whiskey

A good analogy. Just like whiskey if you start off with a crappy whiskey it won’t be as good at 12 years as a good whiskey will be.

So recipe is important as well. But it doesn’t have to be complex because a 2 year old 100% olive oil soap is wonderful.

How/when is the chelator added? Any reactions that I need to be prepared for? Is the usage rate pretty standard for all chelators? Just so you know, I'll probably use the sodium citrate because there are other uses for it in the kitchen. The possibilities for a "sour salt" are fascinating!

I add citric acid to the water then add the lye after the CA has dissolved. You have to add a bit more NaOH if you add citric acid.

 

[Ralph Deitrick]

A good analogy. Just like whiskey if you start off with a crappy whiskey it won’t be as good at 12 years as a good whiskey will be.

I'm probably going to regret this... Not a good analogy. Whiskey only gets better with age if left inside a barrel (all alcohols actually). It is the contact with the charred barrel and the transfer of those external molecules absorbed over time. Once you remove whiskey from the barrel and put it in something (usually glass) that has no chemical influence to the liquid, it could sit for 1000 years and there would be no taste difference.

I fully understand curing and the effects it has. I just don't find the effects to be that beneficial in my case for this particular recipe. The soap that started this entire thread is my daily shower soap, get in, get clean, get the hell out, and get going soap.

Please forgive me, I do not mean to be snippy.

 

[Clarice]

Oh My! Soap Sacrilege!

My showers are for savoring the dozen + bars I have in my shower in little wall-attached draining trays.

Which shall I pick today? Amber? Coffee? Soleseife? Mango Butter?

Delicious!

Different Soaps for Different Soapers!

 

[Dawni]

I'm probably going to regret this... Not a good analogy. Whiskey only gets better with age if left inside a barrel (all alcohols actually). It is the contact with the charred barrel and the transfer of those external molecules absorbed over time. Once you remove whiskey from the barrel and put it in something (usually glass) that has no chemical influence to the liquid, it could sit for 1000 years and there would be no taste difference.

I fully understand curing and the effects it has. I just don't find the effects to be that beneficial in my case for this particular recipe. The soap that started this entire thread is my daily shower soap, get in, get clean, get the hell out, and get going soap.

Please forgive me, I do not mean to be snippy.

I should have said "whiskey in the barrel" then haha

There's several other analogies of things that get better with age that I can think of but @Zing and @Chris_S are gonna start snickering again lol

But you get my point, yes?

 

[Lin19687]

Maybe @DeeAnna can come in to tell you about the process of cure time and the significance.

 

[Chris_S]

I should have said "whiskey in the barrel" then haha

There's several other analogies of things that get better with age that I can think of but @Zing and @Chris_S are gonna start snickering again lol

But you get my point, yes?

I wouldnt even of been aware of you saying that if you hadnt mentioned me too busy making candles too be taking any notice of mere mortals If im honest did make me laugh though.
Makes me want to say, Ah yes ma'am you have aged like a fine wine. Say that in a proper stereotypical posh british accent btw that is not how my accent sounds its very much int north with lots of slang most people would struggle to understand wiganers even i struggle at times and i am one.

 

[Dawni]

That's why I mentioned you lol coz I know you wouldn't see it otherwise.. Glad I made you laugh