Coffee Fragrance Query

[Megan]

Well, I tried it with that new mix of oils. They didn't give me quite as much working time as the other recipe (I had maybe 3-4 minutes, the other one probably gave me about 5-6, so there's not a lot in it), but it was a decent amount. I'm not sure what it is, but there's something about that fragrance oil which really accelerates the trace. I tried a swirl in the pot, but it had gone gloopy as I started to pour and the last bit was being spooned into the mould. Usually I'd bin it if it did that, but I am just going to see what it turns out like. I doubt it'll be anything I think "Oooh, pretty!" to - but it might be useable.

I've done some pretty nice ITP swils with "goopy" batter. The issues come when it actually sets up and gets like ragged and hard (like an actual seize). Those times it doesn't end up very nice. You hand stirred in the FO this time, right? From what you said it sounds like you got to thick trace rather than actually seizing the batter...which is pretty good for an accelerating FO. Just whack the mold on the ground well to try to get the air pockets out.

 

[AndyRoo]

I've done some pretty nice ITP swils with "goopy" batter. The issues come when it actually sets up and gets like ragged and hard (like an actual seize). Those times it doesn't end up very nice. You hand stirred in the FO this time, right? From what you said it sounds like you got to thick trace rather than actually seizing the batter...which is pretty good for an accelerating FO. Just whack the mold on the ground well to try to get the air pockets out.

I brought the batter to emulsion, split it between my jugs and mixed in the colourants and fragrances by hand. There was a tiny bit of ricing, so I gave it a SB of a second or so, which brought it together, but then in the minute or so it took me to mix them in the pot, it was seizing. I was literally dolloping it into the mould and hoping for the best.

I need to try the same blend of oils/butters with another fragrance oil just to see if it's the batter or the fragrance oil... the batter looked ok to me at emulsion, so I think it's probably just a bit of a rubbish FO and I need to look for an alternative. It smells really nice! I'm just not confident it is going to look good or be useable. C'est la vie!

 

[TheGecko]

Your recipe is quite heavy on solid butters - so I'm not at all surprised your batter thickened up.

My recipe is 60% hard oils/butters and I don't have an issue unless I stick blend too much or have a misbehaving FO.

 

[AndyRoo]

My recipe is 60% hard oils/butters and I don't have an issue unless I stick blend too much or have a misbehaving FO.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, my recipe was only 45% hard oils/butters. Although I am not using that one anymore.

 

[linne1gi]

Well, I tried it with that new mix of oils. They didn't give me quite as much working time as the other recipe (I had maybe 3-4 minutes, the other one probably gave me about 5-6, so there's not a lot in it), but it was a decent amount. I'm not sure what it is, but there's something about that fragrance oil which really accelerates the trace. I tried a swirl in the pot, but it had gone gloopy as I started to pour and the last bit was being spooned into the mould. Usually I'd bin it if it did that, but I am just going to see what it turns out like. I doubt it'll be anything I think "Oooh, pretty!" to - but it might be useable.

Put down the stick blender! Seriously, that’s the biggest problem new soapers have. Stick blend for 5 seconds, hand stir, stick blend for 5 seconds, hand stir and so on. I almost never stick blend for more than 15 seconds total. The idea is to get to emulsion which is right before trace. Hand stir in your colors and fragrance. If you need a thicker trace, wait, don’t stick blend more.

 

[linne1gi]

I was also really suprised that she said her recipe gives her long working time. Also that she could stick blend for 15 seconds in a row after emulsion.

I never stick blend my fragrances, but I tend to need a lot of working time. I also try not to stick blend my color but that doesn't always work out.

I like to pre disperse my colors, that way I can hand stir them in. Have you ever watched Teri of Tree Marie Soapworks. I use her method of blending in colors, it’s more time and trouble but you get smooth color, no specs anywhere.

 

[TheGecko]

Are you saying ditch some of them altogether and just concentrate on a few ingredients instead?

Considering some of the amounts being used...yes. The 'holy trinity' of soap making is 3 ingredients: Olive, Coconut and Palm Oils.

With the exception of Castor Oil at 5%, anything else under 10% does nothing for you soap...except to increase your costs and consumer price tag.

I know some folks have objections to using Palm Oil, even if it is RSPO Certified (those poor monkeys) or using Lard/Tallow (OMG Becky...gross!). I use Palm Oil (RSPO) because to not use it means that the same thing will happen to other oils if we eliminate it and by supporting RSPO, it shows that it can be done. Also, the vast majority of commercial soaps contain Sodium Tallowate. Hello...it's still tallow.

If you want, you are more than welcomed to give my recipe a try: Olive Oil (35%), Coconut and Palm Oils (20%), Cocoa and Shea Butters (10%) and Castor Oil (5%). I am using a 33% Lye Concentration, 5% SuperFat. I heat my Hard Oils/Butters on the stove at a medium heat until about halfway melted, then turn off the stove. While waiting I for the residual heat to finish melting the Cocoa Butter, I use frozen distilled water to mix up my lye solution...cuts out the fumes and lowers the temperature. I then weigh out my Soft Oils, add the melted Hard Oil, give it a good whisk or stick blend, then add in my lye solution. I only blend in short bursts and stirs to emulsion if I'm splitting my batter for any reason, elsewise for a single color soap, I continue to a medium trace to make moving the mold later easier.

A few weeks ago I made a 14lb batch and then did some major splitting. I poured out 2 lbs into two containers, added FO, then split each into three containers for colored layers and hanger swirl. Then I poured out 4 lbs into two containers (3 1/2 lbs in one, half pound in the other); added FO, cocoa and mica to the larger bowl, poured, and added a cocoa layer. Then added TD to the second and blended to thick trace and plopped on and dusted with cocoa. Then the last 8 lbs went into two containers (4 lbs each) , scented and divided the batter yet again...adding TD to the larger portion and colorant to the smaller and then doing a drop and chopstick swirl. It was only by this point that my batter started to thicken up to a medium trace.

It was about 75F in the kitchen and I started my batter out at around 120F.

 

[TheGecko]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, my recipe was only 45% hard oils/butters. Although I am not using that one anymore.

I was replying to the other person.

 

[linne1gi]

Considering some of the amounts being used...yes. The 'holy trinity' of soap making is 3 ingredients: Olive, Coconut and Palm Oils.

With the exception of Castor Oil at 5%, anything else under 10% does nothing for you soap...except to increase your costs and consumer price tag.

I know some folks have objections to using Palm Oil, even if it is RSPO Certified (those poor monkeys) or using Lard/Tallow (OMG Becky...gross!). I use Palm Oil (RSPO) because to not use it means that the same thing will happen to other oils if we eliminate it and by supporting RSPO, it shows that it can be done. Also, the vast majority of commercial soaps contain Sodium Tallowate. Hello...it's still tallow.

If you want, you are more than welcomed to give my recipe a try: Olive Oil (35%), Coconut and Palm Oils (20%), Cocoa and Shea Butters (10%) and Castor Oil (5%). I am using a 33% Lye Concentration, 5% SuperFat. I heat my Hard Oils/Butters on the stove at a medium heat until about halfway melted, then turn off the stove. While waiting I for the residual heat to finish melting the Cocoa Butter, I use frozen distilled water to mix up my lye solution...cuts out the fumes and lowers the temperature. I then weigh out my Soft Oils, add the melted Hard Oil, give it a good whisk or stick blend, then add in my lye solution. I only blend in short bursts and stirs to emulsion if I'm splitting my batter for any reason, elsewise for a single color soap, I continue to a medium trace to make moving the mold later easier.

A few weeks ago I made a 14lb batch and then did some major splitting. I poured out 2 lbs into two containers, added FO, then split each into three containers for colored layers and hanger swirl. Then I poured out 4 lbs into two containers (3 1/2 lbs in one, half pound in the other); added FO, cocoa and mica to the larger bowl, poured, and added a cocoa layer. Then added TD to the second and blended to thick trace and plopped on and dusted with cocoa. Then the last 8 lbs went into two containers (4 lbs each) , scented and divided the batter yet again...adding TD to the larger portion and colorant to the smaller and then doing a drop and chopstick swirl. It was only by this point that my batter started to thicken up to a medium trace.

It was about 75F in the kitchen and I started my batter out at around 120F.

What a busy day you had!

 

[TheGecko]

What a busy day you had!

It was interesting. I could have planned better.

 

[AndyRoo]

I was replying to the other person.

Oh!

 

[AndyRoo]

Put down the stick blender! Seriously, that’s the biggest problem new soapers have. Stick blend for 5 seconds, hand stir, stick blend for 5 seconds, hand stir and so on. I almost never stick blend for more than 15 seconds total. The idea is to get to emulsion which is right before trace. Hand stir in your colors and fragrance. If you need a thicker trace, wait, don’t stick blend more.

I literally only used it when the ricing happened, and that was only for a few seconds; I did everything else by hand this time. The colours didn't mix in quite so well - but otherwise it was all good.

I like to pre disperse my colors, that way I can hand stir them in. Have you ever watched Teri of Tree Marie Soapworks. I use her method of blending in colors, it’s more time and trouble but you get smooth color, no specs anywhere.

With my non-liquid pigments, I tend to use an ice cream stick to mix them into a bit of oil or water first and then blend them in, but if blending by hand, I tend to find that doesn't work so well for me.

 

[SoapSisters]

I brought the batter to emulsion, split it between my jugs and mixed in the colourants and fragrances by hand. There was a tiny bit of ricing, so I gave it a SB of a second or so, which brought it together, but then in the minute or so it took me to mix them in the pot, it was seizing. I was literally dolloping it into the mould and hoping for the best.

I need to try the same blend of oils/butters with another fragrance oil just to see if it's the batter or the fragrance oil... the batter looked ok to me at emulsion, so I think it's probably just a bit of a rubbish FO and I need to look for an alternative. It smells really nice! I'm just not confident it is going to look good or be useable. C'est la vie!

I've had trouble with coffee FO as well. It was from New Directions UK. I think trying the same recipe with a different FO sounds like a really good idea. Your batter shouldn't seize at all with a well-behaved FO.

 

[AndyRoo]

Well, these are my results. The coffee one looks marginally better than I thought it would... but I'm determined to get it right at a later date. It smells great, and the coffee grounds give a nice, light exfoliation, which is what I wanted. The sea shanty soaps smell amazing, but the problem I have with the colour is that it makes the lather slightly blue; it washes off fine. Maybe that's just because it needs to finish curing. I love the smell of that soap, and generally how it looks. They're both nice bars to use in the shower in the morning to wake you up, IMHO.

 

[Carolina]

Wow this was amazing! So much useful information.

I just started making soap for other people that is not my family and I always wanted to make a coffee soap. Long ago I made a Chocolate one which started as a disaster, but ended up being a favourite!

@TheGecko ... Loved your reply with the "holly trinity"