Cocoa butter soap suggestions

[MGM]

A friend would like "cocoa butter soap scented with patchouli". I'm cheap, so have not yet made soap with pricey cocoa butter or EOs. But, Lord knows I have plenty of both, so maybe I should just do it! I'm contemplating making 3 batches with different cocoa butter recipes and 3 fragrances: plain patchouli, patch + orange or bergamot, patch + lavender.

Does anyone have any suggestions or recommendations on recipes?

TIA!

 

[Dawni]

I've used patchouli with just about anything lol I like it with the woodsy EOs..

I know most people say not to go over 10-15% cocoa butter in soap but I've used up to 20% and what is noticeable is that it needed a longer than normal cure for the lather to get better. Skin feel at 10% or 20% wasn't very noticeable to me, but that's me.

I have both a double and triple butter soap based loosely on this recipe suggestion and my mom loves it. One of my favorites uses it at 15% but that one also has lard in it. I think butters are great in soap, just the cost and cure time is off putting.

 

[true blue]

I had a request once for patchouli and clove (I used 5 parts patch to 2 parts clove). It ended up selling rather well ... I called it The Spicy Hippy. I took a lesson from that and make my own Patchouli blend now, adding a little clove & ylang to the patch - it's my go-to Patchouli soap that always sells out. I've had people who "don't like Patchouli" say they like that blend. One of my personal favorites is to blend Patchouli & Rosewood.

As for cocoa butter ... I usually end up adding it to formulations using softer oils that I think could use a little hardening. Although my original salt soap recipe I did use cocoa butter at 10% (w/ 90% coconut) ... I've dropped that down now to 5% and added 5% castor to help the bubbles a little more. Weird ... can't remember why I had the cocoa butter in there in the first place!

 

[MGM]

Thank you both for tips... Sounds like I've got more than enough fragrance blends, and a couple of recipe ideas. It's it bad when you want to cut your holiday short to come home to make soap??

 

[Arimara]

If you have a sensitive sniffer, there's a good chance you will smell the cocoa butter in the finished, cured soap. I know I did with my first ever batch and I personally loved it. I know generally speaking, your first batch of soap is usually your worst but in my case, it's been my favorite.

 

[MGM]

Now I've totally changed my plan....I made M&P embeds scented with patch....I figured it wouldn't dissipate as much as in CP, but perhaps patch isn't one that fades. TBH, I'm a bit hesitant to use my precious EOs if I'm not sure they'll last....

 

[Dawni]

None of them last as long as FOs I've gathered. But there are some that last at least several months. I am quite sure that geranium sticks a bit, at least mine does. I have a few bars with it that are 7mos old. Another around the same age still has a woodsy minty scent so I think cedarwood and spearmint also sticks a bit.

I don't scent my soaps often though, I'll have to sniff the ones I did to see what's still there haha

 

[MGM]

One of my very first soaps was like this, patchouli M&P embed in a 100% lard bar scented with orange EOs, which instantly faded. The patch is still going strong 9 months later and it's enough to fragrance the whole bar. Yeah, you remember it....it was the alien brain bar!

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I have to agree with @Arimara about the possibility of the scent of cocoa butter coming through in the soap. Is there such a thing as refined cocoa butter? If so, maybe it wouldn’t be a problem. My cocoa butter definitely leaves a scent and it completely overwhelmed a green tea scent in one of the recipes I made. It’s still great soap, just doesn’t fit the name “Tea House” very well. I agree with @Dawni about butter rich soaps taking longer to cure. I think they start to get really nice at about 3 months.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I built my first butter-based recipe off one I found at the Nova Studios website, here. It’s the second one down on the page. I’ve used mango, cocoa and Shea butters in various combos (running through calculator) and dropped to 20% CO and reduced SF after the first couple of batches.

 

[Dawni]

I agree with @Dawni about butter rich soaps taking longer to cure. I think they start to get really nice at about 3 months.

I just got to try this soap last night. It's only almost 2mos but shows promise. Lather is ok, but I'm sure will be great in another 2-2.5mos.

I've attached the recipe if you want it. You can play around with the butter amounts and still get similar results I would think. Cocoa is most because it's the cheapest of the three lol and the "hardest." I also used dual lye for this particular soap.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I just got to try this soap last night. It's only almost 2mos but shows promise. Lather is ok, but I'm sure will be great in another 2-2.5mos.

I've attached the recipe if you want it. You can play around with the butter amounts and still get similar results I would think. Cocoa is most because it's the cheapest of the three lol and the "hardest." I also used dual lye for this particular soap.

That looks like a great recipe! Thanks for sharing it. I’m definitely going to give it a try.

 

[Adobehead]

I use cocoa butter in all of my soap, about 5%. At that rate I never notice the smell. For Pachouly, I use quite a bit and it lasts literally forever. In my travel bag I carried a bar of Pachouly soap and just finished it recently after 7 years. It never changed, always smelled good!

Someone mentioned using orange EO, which I agree is very nice with Pachouly in something like massage oil, but in soap? The flash point of orange is 110 · F. isn't it? And soap goes up to about 160 in the gel phase, right? I would love to blend these, but never have because of not wanting to lose my orange oil in the process.

 

[MGM]

Someone mentioned using orange EO, which I agree is very nice with Pachouly in something like massage oil, but in soap? The flash point of orange is 110 · F. isn't it? And soap goes up to about 160 in the gel phase, right? I would love to blend these, but never have because of not wanting to lose my orange oil in the process.

I've made one batch so far, with patch and lavender and the lavender totally overwhelmed the patch. Waaah. I think of patch as being so strong, but I'm having to use so much! I used cocoa butter at 15% but can't smell it now (did when the batter was warm).

Re: orange EO....flash points aren't really a problem in soapmaking, unless you're working near an open flame. Flash point is the temperature at which something will catch fire, given an ignition source. Autoignition temperature is the point at which a vapour will spontaneous combust. That's how I understand it, anyway.

Or did you mean lose as in fade vs catch fire? I'm not sure those are related?

 

[Adobehead]

My understanding of flash point is in the soaping process, the temperature at which it just goes pouf! and disappears. Gone. Vanishes into thin air, taking all my money with it. The EO's are volatile and may burn, spontaneously combust, but I cannot attest to that. (This is why some EO's can only be shipped by ground?)

I made laundry soap once with lots and lots of orange oil and while it smelled wonderful while I was doing it, after 24 hours, nothing was left. I think the only way to get orange scented soap would be to rebatch it and add after the heat. And I want to use it in skin creams and lip balms but it is a sun sensitizer, so then I add some zinc. In all, I am frustrated about orange!

 

[bookreader451]

A friend would like "cocoa butter soap scented with patchouli". I'm cheap, so have not yet made soap with pricey cocoa butter or EOs. But, Lord knows I have plenty of both, so maybe I should just do it! I'm contemplating making 3 batches with different cocoa butter recipes and 3 fragrances: plain patchouli, patch + orange or bergamot, patch + lavender.

Does anyone have any suggestions or recommendations on recipes?

TIA!

I use cocoa butter in most of my recipes. I usually use it at 10% so for a 2# batch it is only 3.20 oz. I have attached the recipe I use but you would have to re-run it with superfat for CP. I have it for HP with no superfat.

 

[bookreader451]

Dawni what a luxurious bar!

 

[DeeAnna]

My understanding of flash point is in the soaping process, the temperature at which it just goes pouf! and disappears....

Flash point is the temperature at which a substance will burn if exposed to a flame. It's not the auto ignition temp, and it's not the temp at which something will burn if exposed to a spark. And it has zero to do with how easy a chemical goes "poof."

Volatility is the concept you're really talking about, which is the ability of a chemical to evaporate or volatilize. The vapor pressure of a chemical at a given temperature and pressure is the measurement of the chemical's volatility. The higher the vapor pressure, the higher the volatility and the faster it will evaporate. There are highly volatile chemicals that don't have a flash point, because they don't burn.

Flash points are easy to find because they're required information on every Safety Data Sheets (SDS or MSDS) for products sold on the open market so fire fighters can do their job of fighting fires. Vapor pressure measurements are much harder to find.

Someone awhile back must have been hunting for a way to predict volatility, decided flash points would do nicely because they're easy to find, and passed the idea onto a Facebook group or other soap forum. And yet another unkillable science myth is born.

 

[jcandleattic]

Flash point is the temperature at which a substance will burn if exposed to a flame. It's not the auto ignition temp, and it's not the temp at which something will burn if exposed to a spark. And it has zero to do with how easy a chemical goes "poof."

Volatility is the concept you're really talking about, which is the ability of a chemical to evaporate or volatilize. The vapor pressure of a chemical at a given temperature and pressure is the measurement of the chemical's volatility. The higher the vapor pressure, the higher the volatility and the faster it will evaporate. There are highly volatile chemicals that don't have a flash point, because they don't burn.

Flash points are easy to find because they're required information on every Safety Data Sheets (SDS or MSDS) for products sold on the open market so fire fighters can do their job of fighting fires. Vapor pressure measurements are much harder to find.

Someone awhile back must have been hunting for a way to predict volatility, decided flash points would do nicely because they're easy to find, and passed the idea onto a Facebook group or other soap forum. And yet another unkillable science myth is born.

I cannot LIKE this post enough...
I've actually had people tell me I can't use a low flashpoint scent in candle-making because the candle would "explode" once the scent reached the burning wick...
SMH

ETA - sorry fr the OT post...

 

[Dawni]

Dawni what a luxurious bar!

It is! I originally made it for my mother.. And it's become my second best seller, especially in her senior crowd. She's been an awesome walking, talking advertisement for it haha.

Once again, thanks @DeeAnna. I knew about flash points in soap but I still learned something new today.