Cochineal.. does anyone have experience?

[szaza]

I brought some from Mexico (turns out even though I'm vegetarian my sympathy for parasitic bugs is quite low) I'd like to try it in soap, but don't find much info on the interwebs.. even on this forum it's not much discussed. The only thing I found out about using it in soap is that it supposedly produces a pink soap.

This is the reading I've done so far:
There's an article on lovelygreens about using cochineal in soap (here) where she makes a sort of tea she uses for her lye water, but the soap looks pretty beige..
I also read a tutorial on how to extract color for dyeing fabric and it said to boil the cochineal with cream of tartar (which is slightly acidic) in water for 10-15mins to extract the color.
Another thing I learned is that the dye extracted from cochineal is carminic acid, which can be treated with alum to make carmine. Both change color depending on the surrounding pH, but both also have a good heat and light stability (yay!) (Source)

So my questions..
1. Does anyone have any practical tips/tricks how to go about coloring with cochineal (the dried bugs version). Like, how much to use, how to go about extracting the carminic acid etc.. is there a way to get a brighter color from this in soap?
2. Has anyone tried to treat carminic acid with alum to make carmine?
3. Is there a difference in soap colored with carminic acid vs carmine?

 

[LilyJo]

Wow, really surprised at this. I'm not squeamish by any means but I kind of thought using cochineal for colouring had largely been phased out esp in Europe. I learnt something new!

No experience to offer I'm afraid, my only comment would be around label/ingredients perception but if it's only for you that's never going to be problem LOL!

 

[szaza]

Yeah I remember there was this outrage about 'beetle blood' some 5 years ago and I think most food coloring is now synthetic.
When I was considering whether or not to buy it, I though well, I kill mosquitoes without flinching.. this is just another parasitic insect. I'm honestly not 100% decided on what I think about it (the insects are farmed just to be killed..) but now that I have it I want to experiment.
I don't sell, and obviously I'll only give cochineal soap to people who don't have a problem with it (if I manage to make proper soap with it in the first place)

 

[Mobjack Bay]

This document at the Maiwa site may be useful. http://www.box19.ca/maiwa/pdf/Guide_To_Natural_Dyes.pdf
It sounds like you might get fushsia given the pH of soap and it mentions that alum produces brown.

 

[szaza]

awesome, thanks!

 

[IrishLass]

Here in the US, it's use is alive and well and even exempt from certification by the FDA, who deems it safe for use as a food coloring and in cosmetics and lip products and eye products. I use carmine (cochineal) in my homemade tinted lipbalm/lipstick. I've never colored my soap with it, though.


IrishLass