Chives in Soap?

[MooMac]

Hey all!
I am still crafting my flagship initial soap and I'm thinking about putting chives in it. Would I have to worry about spoilage? How should I do it. What's been your experience in how it can affect the soap? Thoughts?

Context: lye based soap using tallow, macadamia oil, coconut oil, maybe avocado too...salt, citric acid, and turmeric are current add ins considered.

Thank you for any and all input!

MooMac

 

[Quanta]

Are you going to grind it into a powder first? If so, then a small amount is probably ok. You probably won't be able to smell it but it might look interesting.

If you're going to leave it in bigger pieces, botanicals like that will turn an unappealing color when the soap is used. They get soggy and fall out into the sink, too. I wouldn't do it. It might look nice initially, but if the soap is meant to be used (as opposed to looking pretty in a fancy soap dish in the guest bathroom) then don't put botanicals in it.

And I'm just going to say now, especially don't use lavender buds. They will look like mouse poop.

 

[TheGecko]

Finely chopped dried would probably be okay, but fresh chives…no. The Sodium Hydroxide will turn it black and it will rot.

 

[MooMac]

Are you going to grind it into a powder first? If so, then a small amount is probably ok. You probably won't be able to smell it but it might look interesting.

If you're going to leave it in bigger pieces, botanicals like that will turn an unappealing color when the soap is used. They get soggy and fall out into the sink, too. I wouldn't do it. It might look nice initially, but if the soap is meant to be used (as opposed to looking pretty in a fancy soap dish in the guest bathroom) then don't put botanicals in it.

And I'm just going to say now, especially don't use lavender buds. They will look like mouse poop.

I see, thank you! I will do my best to avoid the mouse poop haha

Finely chopped dried would probably be okay, but fresh chives…no. The Sodium Hydroxide will turn it black and it will rot.

I see! I wonder if powdered keeps chives positive qualities

 

[Quanta]

I see! I wonder if powdered keeps chives positive qualities

Whatever positive qualities chives have will probably be destroyed by the high pH of the lye. That's why you probably won't be able to smell it once the soap is cured.

 

[Ford]

I put calendula petals and lavender buds on the soaps. Lower right of pic. You can see how the humidity affected them. Tumeric and spinula used for coloring has faded also. FWIW

 

[TheGecko]

I see! I wonder if powdered keeps chives positive qualities

Two things you need to understand about soap: 1) It is a wash on/rinse on product that doesn't stay on your skin very long. A soap that is "moisturizing", doesn't really moisturize skin, it simply doesn't strip the skin of all its natural oils. 2) Sodium Hydroxide is a caustic substance and it, along with the process of saponification, which changes the oils and butters into soap, destroys the majority of any benefit that may be in the ingredients. It is why it is recommended to save the expensive oils and ingredients for lotions...that stay on the skin.

Powdered chives may at best, turn your soap some shade of green, but as with a lot of 'natural' colorants, it will also fade with time.

 

[maryloucb]

I thought it would be great to put "stuff" in soap, but it turns out it's not, really. Unless it's something finely ground, or a type of clay, it turns brown, is scratchy and just goes down the drain. If you want to see for yourself, do a small batch.

 

[MooMac]

I put calendula petals and lavender buds on the soaps. Lower right of pic. You can see how the humidity affected them. Tumeric and spinula used for coloring has faded also. FWIWView attachment 58770

I see, thank you!

 

[MooMac]

Two things you need to understand about soap: 1) It is a wash on/rinse on product that doesn't stay on your skin very long. A soap that is "moisturizing", doesn't really moisturize skin, it simply doesn't strip the skin of all its natural oils. 2) Sodium Hydroxide is a caustic substance and it, along with the process of saponification, which changes the oils and butters into soap, destroys the majority of any benefit that may be in the ingredients. It is why it is recommended to save the expensive oils and ingredients for lotions...that stay on the skin.

Powdered chives may at best, turn your soap some shade of green, but as with a lot of 'natural' colorants, it will also fade with time.

That makes sense, thank you for sharing! I suppose chives would be better used in a lotion then

 

[MooMac]

I thought it would be great to put "stuff" in soap, but it turns out it's not, really. Unless it's something finely ground, or a type of clay, it turns brown, is scratchy and just goes down the drain. If you want to see for yourself, do a small batch.

I see! I was hoping ground chives powder might still have some benefit to being in soap but it looks like that's not the case.

 

[Quanta]

That makes sense, thank you for sharing! I suppose chives would be better used in a lotion then

No, not really. Botanicals are more easily preserved in a high pH product like soap, and really, really difficult to preserve in lotions. You'll get mold pretty quickly with chives in lotion.

 

[maryloucb]

I see! I was hoping ground chives powder might still have some benefit to being in soap but it looks like that's not the case.

If you dry them and grind them to a powder, then that could work. I would just suggest experimenting with small batches to see if you get the effect you are after.

 

[MooMac]

No, not really. Botanicals are more easily preserved in a high pH product like soap, and really, really difficult to preserve in lotions. You'll get mold pretty quickly with chives in lotion.

So far it seems people are suggesting it would be ineffective in soap, I suppose I'll try powdered and/or perhaps boil chives and use the water in my soap

 

[Quanta]

So far it seems people are suggesting it would be ineffective in soap, I suppose I'll try powdered and/or perhaps boil chives and use the water in my soap

You can try infusing oils. Search the forums for it and you'll find threads on how to do it.

 

[MooMac]

You can try infusing oils. Search the forums for it and you'll find threads on how to do it.

Thank you very much!

 

[KiwiMoose]

We've all been down the road of putting stuff in our soap - it's all fair game when we start out. Having said that - if you grind, infuse or whatever else to include the item so that it doesn't discolour, look like mouse poop, or become scratchy or rancid, then that can add to label appeal even if the properties don't withstand the lye torture chamber. I always include either aloe juice, coconut milk, rice water or oat milk in my soap - all of which are effectively just adding sugars (and maybe some extra superfat) but my customers draw their own conclusions on the 'benefits' of said additives even though I never make any claims.

 

[MooMac]

We've all been down the road of putting stuff in our soap - it's all fair game when we start out. Having said that - if you grind, infuse or whatever else to include the item so that it doesn't discolour, look like mouse poop, or become scratchy or rancid, then that can add to label appeal even if the properties don't withstand the lye torture chamber. I always include either aloe juice, coconut milk, rice water or oat milk in my soap - all of which are effectively just adding sugars (and maybe some extra superfat) but my customers draw their own conclusions on the 'benefits' of said additives even though I never make any claims.

Insightful, thank you. I've been thinking of adding coconut milk and/or aloe vera into my soap as well...but you're saying it's unlikely qualities make it past the lye? Even if added after much of the lye reaction in hot soap? I'd like to have intentional ingredients but if I'm not sure and customers are sure they like it, that's compelling

 

[Quanta]

Insightful, thank you. I've been thinking of adding coconut milk and/or aloe vera into my soap as well...but you're saying it's unlikely qualities make it past the lye? Even if added after much of the lye reaction in hot soap? I'd like to have intentional ingredients but if I'm not sure and customers are sure they like it, that's compelling

If your soap is still fluid enough to get it into a mold, saponification is still going on and the pH is still very high. Even if you cooked it. That's why you're supposed to wear gloves while working with it.

 

[artemis]

Insightful, thank you. I've been thinking of adding coconut milk and/or aloe vera into my soap as well...but you're saying it's unlikely qualities make it past the lye?

Well... The qualities of the original ingredient often don't make it past the lye monster. However, there are other qualities that ingredients can give to your soap. The sugars in the coconut milk can help make a nice lather, for example.

For most things you might want to add, you can search the forum to see others' experiences. Chives was new to me, though.

BTW, scratchy isn't always a bad thing-- gardener's and mechanic's soaps often have a scratchy element to help with scrubbing.