Chemist needed!

[coffeetime]

Completely not about soap, but I wonder if someone could tell me the result of a particular chemical reaction? It would be ascorbic acid with chloramine. I'll find the chemical names for them. BRB.
It would be C6H8O6 + NH2Cl in water. It's my understanding that the ascorbic breaks down the chloramine, but into what? Thanks in advance.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

"Customer service call for DeeAnna. DeeAnna to the customer service desk, please"

 

[coffeetime]

Lol! Thanks, EG. Although I seem to recall we had 3 or 4 chemists on here at one time. I'm hoping it's a simple calculation.

 

[CaraBou]

I'm by no means a chemist. But FWIW a google search gave me the same answer multiple times.

Ascorbic acid + Chloramine = dehydroascorbic acid + Ammonium Chloride

C6H8O6 + NH2Cl = C6H6O6 + NH4Cl

Now, don't ask me what those chemicals actually are or what they mean to your application... :shifty:

 

[coffeetime]

I read through multiple pages on Google and could not find that, thank you. So what are those things? Are they stable? Are they safe to consume?

 

[Susie]

I was wondering why you wanted to know that, but a bit of research yielded the fact that is is probably in our drinking water showed up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloramine

And it included this bit of info:

"Ascorbic acid and sodium ascorbate[edit]
Ascorbic acid and sodium ascorbate completely neutralize both chlorine and chloramine, but degrade in a day or two, which makes them usable only for short-term applications. SFPUC determined that 1000 mg of Vitamin C tablets, crushed and mixed in with bath water, completely remove chloramine in a medium-size bathtub without significantly depressing pH."

 

[DeeAnna]

Take it away, CaraBou and Susie. All I know is chloramines are used for drinking water disinfection as an alternative to chlorine. They also form when chlorine disinfectant reacts with dissolved organic matter in water, so chloramines are often found in drinking water that comes from rivers and lakes, even if chlorine alone is used for disinfection. The rest is outside my experience, so the best I can offer is what you two are doing -- google is my friend!

 

[Susie]

There is no cure for curiosity. Only information will keep it mildly satisfied. I had to know in the middle of the night.

 

[coffeetime]

I have been Googling, but I haven't found the answers I need. Chloramine is added to our drinking water here and it is much slower to break down than chlorine (which is why they use it.)

I had read that you could remove it from bath water by adding ascorbic acid but wondered if that was safe for drinking water. So I wanted to know what the reaction produced. And if those products were safe to drink. I've found some tidbits, like chloramine will break down into chlorine and ammonia, but will recombine into chloramine over time. I have used ascorbic in bath water but didn't notice any ammonia off gassing, so I'm thinking that's not the whole story.

I know it takes 2.5 times as much ascorbic as chloramine to fully react.

Unfortunately, a lot of google results are just bloggers repeating the same info. Wikipedia was good but I didn't feel it completely answered my questions.

Our water filter died and we hate the smell and taste of chloramine, so I've been trying to find cost effective alternatives.

 

[galaxyMLP]

I've never heard of these chloramines, interesting. I'll share what I do know though!


Ascorbic acid is vitamin c (in case you were wondering). Dehydro ascorbic acid is the dehydrated (loss of hydrogen) version and can also be used by our bodies as vitamin c.

Ammonium Chloride is sometimes used in fertilizers for plants like blueberry as a source of nitrogen. Other plants need it in the nitrate form but some, like blueberries can use it in this form. What you read about it becoming ammonia (versus ammoniUM) occurs if your drinking water becomes basic. I know in south Florida, my moms drinking water is about a pH of 8.5 from the dissolved carbonates in it. It would take more ascorbic acid to react with the chloramines in this case. Any unused, treated, water will go back into the water stream and in the basic environment of the bulk water could react to form ammonia. I would not worry about the water forming ammonia in our bodies though because our stomachs are highly acidic.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Brewers use a product called Campden Tablets to remove chloramines from water. It's potassium metabisulfite. One tablet is usually enough to treat 20 gallons of water at typical municipal usage rates for chloramine.

ETA: Activated charcoal also removes it.

 

[coffeetime]

Thank you for all the replies so far. Our water is about 7.9-8.0 pH (we have quite hard water that is not softened).
So, in theory, there is really nothing from the reaction that would be harmful? I wonder why I've only seen the ascorbic recommended for bath water then. I tried some and didn't have any reaction to it, and it tasted perfect-no chlorine or ammonia taste or smell.