Castille Soap - ???

[user 12568]

OK, so I always thought that Castile Soap's were strictly Olive Oil, Water, and Lye. But I keep reading all over the internet that as long as a soap uses only non-animal fats that it also qualifies as Castile. This doesn't sit well with me.

I'm pretty certain there were no Coconut Oil, Shea Butter, Cocoa Butter, Olive Oil, Hemp Seed Oil, Goat's Milk, Oatmeal, and Honey soaps historically found in the Castile region of Spain. I've never been there -- but just a hunch.

I've also read that people often differentiate between "true" Castille soaps by capitalizing the "C", while other soaps with mixed fats are referred to as castile with a lower case "c". This seems to be a very fine distinction, one which I am certain is lost on non-soaper's, and seems to strip all significance from the original meaning. Am I being too much of a purist or is the world just screwing with me?

 

[Nevada]

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[user 12568]

Um... yeah... ... not so helpful...
(like I never thought to Google this 4,000 times already)

Even following your link to Google brought up one link that stated that Castile soap was originally made with Olive Oil and Laurel Oil, while another link stated it was made with Olive Oil and animal fats.

Hence my confusion and original post...

Maybe someone else can chime in on this instead.

 

[Obsidian]

Unfortunately, there is no definitive answer to your question. As you've seen, castile means different things to different people. As a purist, to me castile means 100% olive oil, water and lye. Even the addition of milk will make me label the soap bastile. Adding Laurel to the castile makes it Aleppo soap.

For the general consumer, its not near as important and many people don't know the difference nor do they care. When I explain to people what castile is, they usually look at me like I've got rocks in my head and am being too "picky" about ingredients.

I'm the same way with African black soap. I see so many dark soaps mislabeled as African soap, it just drives me crazy. I refuse to buy any products from people who mislabel castile or black soap as I feel its dishonest and done out of greed.

 

[smeetree]

Does this mean Dr. Bronners is no good?

 

[Obsidian]

I wouldn't say its no good, I just feel its false advertising. If you like it, then by all means, use it. I bought some Dr.B's expecting it to be a gentle OO soap and it dries me out something terrible. Taught me to always read labels, even on popular well likes brands.

 

[smeetree]

I've been using it for shampoos, combining it with coconut milk and almond oil. My hair hasn't been dry at all. I'd say the opposite. I don't need conditioner anymore. Maybe it just depends on the person and their hair type.
(I hoarded some in bulk, so maybe I'm in denial)

 

[boyago]

Um... yeah... ... not so helpful...
(like I never thought to Google this 4,000 times already)

Even following your link to Google brought up one link that stated that Castile soap was originally made with Olive Oil and Laurel Oil, while another link stated it was made with Olive Oil and animal fats.

Hence my confusion and original post...

Maybe someone else can chime in on this instead.

Well soap wasn't being made in Europe till after it was imported from what we now call the middle east where the soaps were being made from a mix of bay laurel oil and olive oils. So when it was reinvented Europe side they dropped the Laurel and were making it from mostly just olive oil. This became common and soap became popular and people started giving credit to the Castile region for soap in general. Olives and olive oil had a big market and were available so they used that. Not sure why they dropped the Laurel oil since the Greeks and Romans revered the laurel tree for so long but now when olive and laurel oils are mixed to make soap the call it Aleppo soap since there are apparently allot of laurel trees still in the region. But the mix was the first soap brought and what everybody was trying emulate. That's just a recap of some of the stuff I've read but I'm sure a more scholarly type of soapaphile could break it down better for you. It's mostly something people like to go back and forth about. I'm betting if you were a soap maker in the Castile region circa 1550 and you figured out you could put some goats milk in your soap you think you were king **** and get huffy if somebody said your soap wasn't "Castile" enough. So take it how you like it. Seems like one of those "that's not "whatever" enough" to carry a title kind of argument. Bastille soap on the other hand needs to be made with 65% OO and 35% Palm oil. No Exceptions. Ever.

ps I only use "Castile" with my soaps if it's 100% OO without any shenanigans. Also "Aleppo" sounds way sexier and looks cooler but unless you have a friend in Turkey or want to import it by the metric ton it's hard to get the laurel oil.

 

[user 12568]

Thanks for all the replies... it's disappointing how the term "Castile" gets thrown around without much thought these days, and redefined to fit individual marketing goals. To me, it will always be 100% Olive Oil, Water, and Lye.

@ boyago: I've never seen strick guidelines re: Bastille soap, especially with it being made with only 65% OO and 35% Palm oil. I know others on this forum have a much more relaxed approach to this term as well. http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=12058

I guess the best practice is to drop the fancy labels, and just look at the ingredients to be sure you know what you're buying. I suppose I was just hopeful that, as a soaping community, we would have standardized our terminology by now.

 

[boyago]

I'm sorry my sarcasm didn't come through, I should work on that or use italics or something. I remember Bastille by thinking of "*******ized Castile" it's any OO heavy soap.

 

[smeetree]

Do you guys have pure castile soap brands you recommend? Good quality at a good price. I've been using Bronners but now I want to try something that is pure OO.

 

[AngelMomma]

I have never seen a pure olive oil castile for sale anywhere around here. I have always wanted to try a 100% olive oil bar that has been cured for 12+months. I do not view a bar as Castile unless it is Olive Oil, Water and Lye. I would never tell anyone that one of my bars was a castile unless it was made with those 3 ingredients only. Period.

 

[boyago]

I'm gonna start a personal tradition of making a big batch of 100% pure Castile on New Years not to be touched till the next. My 6 month Castile is super nice.

 

[houseofwool]

I'm gonna start a personal tradition of making a big batch of 100% pure Castile on New Years not to be touched till the next. My 6 month Castile is super nice.

i have a *******ized Castile that I am absolutely loving even though it's only about four months old. I replaced the water with beer and added honey to it, but otherwise it's 100% olive oil.

 

[judymoody]

100% OO Castille probably isn't sold commercially because it takes forever to cure and it wouldn't be commercially viable for it to sit around for months in a warehouse until point of sale.

I have some that is nearly 2 years old and it is still slimy as all get out. I'm not a fan. Give me a nice Bastille (I like 80% OO/20% CO) any day.

 

[Obsidian]

I bought a bar of castile that is over a year old and I don't really care for it either. It is mild and makes my skin feel soft but I can't stand the slimy lather and stale oil smell.
I made a high OO liquid soap and it doesn't have very good lather. As far as liquid goes, you are better off with a bastile. If you like bronners, then use it. The only issue I have with it is there is too much coconut oil in it and it dries my skin.

 

[LanaBanana]

There is an all olive oil bar soap from "Kiss My Face". I can't remember if it is marketed as castille but it is at my local health food store and in the small natural bath products section of my grocery store. Don't know how it compares to handmade.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[user 12568]

@ boyago: LOL! I must have missed the sarcasm in your previous post, thanks for clearing that up. :-D As it turns out, I do make a lot of Bastille soaps. ******* + Castile = Bastile... Priceless!

I'm not one for needing a lot of bubbles, and am really just wanting to make a good moisturizing bar for the winter. My skin is awfully dry already... I think I'll do a true Castile bar and see how it turns out. I I've waited for 2yrs before drinking my homemade wine, so waiting 1yr before using the soap shouldn't be too hard. (I hope...)

 

[Skatergirl46]

I'm not one for needing a lot of bubbles, and am really just wanting to make a good moisturizing bar for the winter. My skin is awfully dry already... I think I'll do a true Castile bar and see how it turns out. I I've waited for 2yrs before drinking my homemade wine, so waiting 1yr before using the soap shouldn't be too hard. (I hope...)

I made a Bastille recently for that ^ same reason and though it's a bit young still, I am loving the little end piece I have in my shower. It's really helping with the winter dryness.

 

[Yooper]

I have a 14 month old castile that is awesome. It's definitely gentle, and the bar is hard. It really is a great soap, and I like it a lot.

Otherwise, I make mostly bastile for the bubbles and the feel of it.

I'm a firm believer that castille soap is 100% olive oil for the oils. That's it. Bastille is what I call anything else.