Can not thicken my soap

[Kevinkn24]

I make 2 type of soap

1. 100% olive oil soap
2. 100% coconut oil soap

I store it in diluted liquid soap

Then I use 75% diluted olive soal
25% diluted coconut soap
Then I thicken it with salt solution and it can thicken well

But after 1 month
I try to make the same soap
75% olive 25% coconut from the diluted soap
But it can't be thickened using salt solution

I also try to thicken the 100% olive oil soap with salt solution and it thickened to a good consistency. Then I add the coconut oil soap and the consistency became low again like a water

What is the problem?
Is it because I store the coconul oil soap for too long? Its only 1 month
Or is there another reason?
I also use citric acid to neutralize the ph in the coconut oil soap

 

[DeeAnna]

...But after 1 month
I try to make the same soap
75% olive 25% coconut from the diluted soap
But it can't be thickened using salt solution

So are you using soap that's already been thickened with salt to make the new blend? If so, I'd advise this -- (1) make the blend using soap that doesn't contain added salt. And then (2) thickening the new blend with salt.

If I were doing this, I'd make the blend from soap paste and then dilute to a suitable consistency. And then thicken. But I think your way can work too.

I also try to thicken the 100% olive oil soap with salt solution and it thickened to a good consistency. Then I add the coconut oil soap and the consistency became low again like a water...

Because the olive-coconut soap is a different blend of soap than the all-olive soap. Coconut oil liquid soap takes a lot more salt to thicken if it can be thickened at all. I'd expect the olive-coconut blend to be thinner than the olive oil soap alone -- no surprise there.

Like I advised in the other thread where you're asking a similar question -- you need to do a salt curve to know how much salt you need to thicken soap. You need to do this for EACH type of soap. I've given you good advice, but apparently you don't agree, so I won't belabor my point any further.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I also try to thicken the 100% olive oil soap with salt solution and it thickened to a good consistency. Then I add the coconut oil soap and the consistency became low again like a water

What is the problem?

Generally speaking, salt is used to thicken 80 -100% olive oil LS (and similar).
It does not work for LS that contains over 20% coconut oil.

https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-...:cks/how-to-use-and-thicken-liquid-soap-base/
My advice:
Make 50/50% Coconut oil/Olive Oil paste; 3:1 Water : Lye Ratio and 0% SF.
Dilute the paste at 40% soap to 60% water.
If a skin forms on the top, add 5% (or more) water to incorporate the skin.
The end result is Liquid Soap that doesn't need thickening. Problem solved!
You can wash anything with it... hair, body, laundry, dog, car, dishes, floor, etc.
Lovely little work horse.
HTH

 

[GGMA0317]

I make 2 type of soap

1. 100% olive oil soap
2. 100% coconut oil soap

I store it in diluted liquid soap

Then I use 75% diluted olive soal
25% diluted coconut soap
Then I thicken it with salt solution and it can thicken well

I'm curious as to why not use a formula in those percentages from the start If you're going to blend it later? It's been a very long time since I made castile LS or Coconut LS but I have a list of ingredients that can thicken LS made with various formulas. I will look through my notes and get back to you.

I thought I had posted a list of natural LS thickeners a while back. One more question before I go, Is this a lye heavy soap like the ones in Katherine Falors (sp) book? I'm asking because I'm going to make your formula to experiment with various thickeners. Thanks!

 

[Kevinkn24]

So are you using soap that's already been thickened with salt to make the new blend? If so, I'd advise this -- (1) make the blend using soap that doesn't contain added salt. And then (2) thickening the new blend with salt.

If I were doing this, I'd make the blend from soap paste and then dilute to a suitable consistency. And then thicken. But I think your way can work too.



Because the olive-coconut soap is a different blend of soap than the all-olive soap. Coconut oil liquid soap takes a lot more salt to thicken if it can be thickened at all. I'd expect the olive-coconut blend to be thinner than the olive oil soap alone -- no surprise there.

Like I advised in the other thread where you're asking a similar question -- you need to do a salt curve to know how much salt you need to thicken soap. You need to do this for EACH type of soap. I've given you good advice, but apparently you don't agree, so I won't belabor my point any further.

thankyou for the advice, i'm trying to reduce the coconut oil composistion and adding more salt and it can thicken. however the color of the soap become more cloudy and more white. than not thickened coconut oil soap tha color dark yellow. is it common that using salt thickening make the color cloudy?

 

[DesertRose]

I've come here to start a neew thread about my thickening problem and just seen this subject. Can you help me as well ?

Normally i used to thicken my liquid soap with salt but it didn't work 100% because of high amount of Coconot Oil. This time i wanted to use more pro ingredient and purchased some Xanthan Gum. However the result didn't make me happy.

I first added 1% Xanthan Gum directly to the liquid soap and stirred. But it didn't dissolve well, made it clumpy and cloudy. Then i used my blender to smooth it. Afterwards i added %1 Gum directly to water this time, and stirred it. It thickened immediately and i mixed it with the liquid soap. But again, the soap remained thin. I dunno what to do, so confused.

Here is my recipe;
- Coconut Oil, 76 deg 33%
- Castor Oil 10%
- Olive Oil 57%
- Fragrance Oil 3%
- Polysorbate 80 6%

Total Oil Weight: 1.455 gr
KOH: 334 gr
Total Water: 780 gr (Actually 580 gr water + 200 gr glycerine)
KOH: 334 gr
Super Fat: %2

* My purpose is converting it to shower gel.

 

[DeeAnna]

Your recipe has enough oleic acid that I'd expect you ~should~ be able to use salt to thicken. If you haven't done a salt curve to verify, don't assume salt won't work. If you're using salt and thickening "by the seat of your pants" just understand that you might unknowingly be using too much or too little salt to get good results. Knowing what you need to do might result in a nicely thickened soap.

I don't have experience with xanthan gum so don't have any advice to offer. All I know is people who have tried it say it's tricky to use. You might get some tips or insights from Faith Oriold -- see Alaiyna B. Bath and Body

 

[DesertRose]

Your recipe has enough oleic acid that I'd expect you ~should~ be able to use salt to thicken. If you haven't done a salt curve to verify, don't assume salt won't work. If you're using salt and thickening "by the seat of your pants" just understand that you might unknowingly be using too much or too little salt to get good results. Knowing what you need to do might result in a nicely thickened soap.

I don't have experience with xanthan gum so don't have any advice to offer. All I know is people who have tried it say it's tricky to use. You might get some tips or insights from Faith Oriold -- see Alaiyna B. Bath and Body

That's the first time i fail with salt. I prepare water with 30% salt and add it to the soap slowly, incrementally. I add 1 tea spoon, stir and see whether it thickens or not. If it doesn't thicken, i add one more tea spoon and observe. Until it thickens, i keep adding and stirring..

The differences from my previous shower gels;
- Added 2 gr niacinamide powder,
- Added 5 gr blueberry extract in powder form,
- Added 2 gr of vitamin E (liquid)
- This time i used a different Fragrance Oil.

This is what it looks like; gel phase in the middle, foamlike white layers on the top and bottom side.

* This time i messed up in a nutshell

 

[GGMA0317]

That's the first time i fail with salt. I prepare water with 30% salt and add it to the soap slowly, incrementally. I add 1 tea spoon, stir and see whether it thickens or not. If it doesn't thicken, i add one more tea spoon and observe. Until it thickens, i keep adding and stirring..

The differences from my previous shower gels;
- Added 2 gr niacinamide powder,
- Added 5 gr blueberry extract in powder form,
- Added 2 gr of vitamin E (liquid)
- This time i used a different Fragrance Oil.

This is what it looks like; gel phase in the middle, foamlike white layers on the top and bottom side.

View attachment 73286

* This time i messed up in a nutshell

Some of you guys are confusing me with your LS terms. For example; I don't know if you're trying to thicken a gel, make a gel or thicken LS that's been diluted

I've never used salt to do either, so I can't help with thickening natural LS with salt. I do know that some fragrances can thin or thicken LS. Perhaps that's what happened.

 

[DeeAnna]

I think most people are using "shower gel" or "gel" as a loose term when they really mean they're wanting a thicker liquid soap. I agree with you that a thicker liquid soap is not really a gel in the strict sense, so I appreciate why you're confused.

Soap making is an odd environment to be in if you have a chemistry or cosmetic science background -- some words are used loosely in soap making that normally have strict, specific meanings to a chemist or cosmetic scientist. Sometimes I have to ask what people mean ... other times I get their meaning from context, as when this OP says they're thickening with salt -- it's obvious the result isn't a true gel.

 

[GGMA0317]

I think most people are using "shower gel" or "gel" as a loose term when they really mean they're wanting a thicker liquid soap. I agree with you that a thicker liquid soap is not really a gel in the strict sense, so I appreciate why you're confused.

Soap making is an odd environment to be in if you have a chemistry or cosmetic science background -- some words are used loosely in soap making that normally have strict, specific meanings to a chemist or cosmetic scientist. Sometimes I have to ask what people mean ... other times I get their meaning from context, as when this OP says they're thickening with salt -- it's obvious the result isn't a true gel.

I didn't think it was a gel But I've seen some interesting things here. so I had to ask to be sure just in case the op was actually trying to make shower gel- I could be of some help. I don't use salt for thickening LS or anything else. I may have tried it back when I was a baby

We've been here before and you'd think I would have remembered the last thread about Gel vs LS paste. But, nope

The paste resembles a gel type substance so I can see why some people refer to it as gel.

 

[DesertRose]

@GGMA0317 @DeeAnna
Thank you for your contributions. I've just seen my mistake thanks to your approaching.

I was trying to thicken diluted LS, may be this time i should make the shower gel directly using the LS paste itself, not after dilution.

Normally the amounf of water i use for dilution is 2 or 1,5 x total soap paste. For example, if i have 2 kg of LS paste, i dilute it with 3 or 4 kg of water. And if i want to use it as foam soap, i dilute it again with 1:1 ratio. So in total, i can get 10 kg of foam soap from 2 kg of LS paste.

This time i'm gonna dilute the paste with 1:0,5 ratio. For 500 gr of LS paste, i'll use 250 gr water for dilution to make it shower gel.

Do you think is it worth adding some vitamins and extracts to shower gel, such as vitamin E, B3, Blueberry extract ? I know that if i add such things, i have to use a preservative. Unfortunately we don't have ''Germall Plus'' here in Türkiye. I have only ''Phenoxyethanol - Ethylhexylglycerin'' as a preservative and i'm not sure if it's suitable for liquid soap.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I have only ''Phenoxyethanol - Ethylhexylglycerin'' as a preservative and i'm not sure if it's suitable for liquid soap.

https://naturallythinking.com/phenoxyethanol-ethylhexylglycerin