Butter bars won't harden

[Todd Ziegler]

I made two different batches with butter in them and they won't harden up. Both batches were done at room temperature and I used SL.

The 3 butter soap is 5 days old and when I gently press on it, it leaves a dimple. The butters where all close to a year old but had never been opened from the vacuum seal bags.

I changed the recipe a little for the mango only soap and added some palm kernel flakes to see if it would help it harden and it may be helping a little but it is still softer then I expected for 3 days.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

 

[shunt2011]

I don't see anything in your recipes that would cause the soap to be soft. The first one may be really cleansing but otherwise they both look okay to me. Did they gel? I use older butters all the time. I store them in the fridge or freezer. Shouldn't cause an issue. You've certainly got enough hard oils/butters in the soaps.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

I don't see anything in your recipes that would cause the soap to be soft. The first one may be really cleansing but otherwise they both look okay to me. Did they gel? I use older butters all the time. I store them in the fridge or freezer. Shouldn't cause an issue. You've certainly got enough hard oils/butters in the soaps.

Thanks. I thought maybe I made a mistake with my lye but I have made other batches of soap using the same master batch of lye and they hardened up just fine. My SF was only 2% and I didn't use any extra oil for the mica. I am stumped

 

[earlene]

Did they gel? Have you CPOP'd these at all? I've only use mango butter of the 3 you used, so I don't know what the others are like, but the mango butter I used was of a very soft consistency. I would suspect if not taken to perhaps a medium trace, and not gelled, they may take a bit longer to set up, particularly with that much Castor. Maybe the lye concentration plus the softness of the butters (assuming the other 2 are soft like mango) are working together to create a slower set-up time?

If it were my soaps, I would consider CPOP (again, if already done once). And if that didn't make a difference, I'd consider a possible measuring error on my part, and just wait it out for a few more days, checking periodically, of course.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

Did they gel? Have you CPOP'd these at all? I've only use mango butter of the 3 you used, so I don't know what the others are like, but the mango butter I used was of a very soft consistency. I would suspect if not taken to perhaps a medium trace, and not gelled, they may take a bit longer to set up, particularly with that much Castor. Maybe the lye concentration plus the softness of the butters (assuming the other 2 are soft like mango) are working together to create a slower set-up time?

If it were my soaps, I would consider CPOP (again, if already done once). And if that didn't make a difference, I'd consider a possible measuring error on my part, and just wait it out for a few more days, checking periodically, of course.

I gelled these @135°F for 1.5 hours. I will just keep waiting maybe time is all they need.

 

[lenarenee]

That is a mystery. Any fragrances used? Is there at least a progression of hardness or do they seem to have stopped? Is the weather particularly humid?

Right now all I can think is somehow more water was introduced to the mix. Or is there something up with the butters - could they be adulterated with added oils from the manufacturer? (I don't think year old butter is the issue- soaping is how I use up butters that are getting old)

 

[Todd Ziegler]

That is a mystery. Any fragrances used? Is there at least a progression of hardness or do they seem to have stopped? Is the weather particularly humid?

Right now all I can think is somehow more water was introduced to the mix. Or is there something up with the butters - could they be adulterated with added oils from the manufacturer? (I don't think year old butter is the issue- soaping is how I use up butters that are getting old)

The mango feels like it is getting harder. I went ahead and cut it (I will post a picture) but I still had to be careful. The 3 butter FO was coconut lime from nurture soap and the mango FO is Island oasis from nurture soap. Both of them I have used before with no problem and they are new. We have had low humidity here in Indiana but I have made soaps in between these and they are hard after 20 hours but the recipe is different.

I don't think I used more water on both but I could have?

 

[lenarenee]

The mango feels like it is getting harder. I went ahead and cut it (I will post a picture) but I still had to be careful. The 3 butter FO was coconut lime from nurture soap and the mango FO is Island oasis from nurture soap. Both of them I have used before with no problem and they are new. We have had low humidity here in Indiana but I have made soaps in between these and they are hard after 20 hours but the recipe is different.

I don't think I used more water on both but I could have?

Your lye was masterbatched right? So it seems unlikely; but ultimately anything is possible.
Is this the first time using those particular packages of butters? (again, wondering if they were adulterated)
I haven't used those fo's. I wonder if fo's can react differently with different oils and butters?

I can't wait to see the cut.(assuming you were going to post them) I've been using butters pretty regularly with my soaps this year...along with palm and lard and I don't like they're turning out. So I'm trying to see what recipes work well with butters.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

I have never used these butters before. In fact they are the first butter bars I have ever made. Yes on the MB lye.

They look great, just soft but they are definitely harder than yesterday, I think?

I have a fan on them from top and bottom. I'm not in any hurry, so I will let them alone for a while and see how they go. They are supposed to look like the outside of a mango.

 

[Obsidian]

I'm sure you have said before but how are you gelling? I know you pick a temp and set them at that for a certain amount of time. During this time do you peak? Did you actually see these in gel? Thats the only thing I can think of.

I know some people wrap their soap to gel and don't look again till the next day, always made me wonder how they know the soap really gelled. When I cpop, I have to keep it at 170 or my recipe won't gel.

I've also have a FO that makes the soap set really, really slow when used at 1oz PPO, lower usage and its fine.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

Yes I check the soap at 30 minutes and if it hasn't reached 120°F, I give it 45 more minutes. Once I get 125°F and I can see the gel starting, I keep it going until I get full gel. It's sounds like a lot of work but I have the time.

 

[Obsidian]

I figured you made sure it gelled but thought I'd mention it. Its bizarre when soap acts up and you can't figure out why.
I used to cut my high lard soap at 8 - 10 hours, now I need almost a full 24 hours. I don't know what the issue is or how to correct it. Not that I need to unmold at 8 hours, just bothers me I can't figure it out.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

I figured you made sure it gelled but thought I'd mention it. Its bizarre when soap acts up and you can't figure out why.
I used to cut my high lard soap at 8 - 10 hours, now I need almost a full 24 hours. I don't know what the issue is or how to correct it. Not that I need to unmold at 8 hours, just bothers me I can't figure it out.

All of my soaps lately have been harder to get in the gell phase. Whereas a few weeks ago I had make sure that they did not get to hot, now I can't seem to get them hot enough. I wonder if the change of seasons has anything to do with it? Otherwise I am at a loss for reasons.

 

[earlene]

I have never used these butters before. In fact they are the first butter bars I have ever made. Yes on the MB lye.

They look great, just soft but they are definitely harder than yesterday, I think?

I have a fan on them from top and bottom. I'm not in any hurry, so I will let them alone for a while and see how they go. They are supposed to look like the outside of a mango.

Perfect mango color! So how does Island Oasis smell? Does it lend itself well to the mango theme?

 

[lenarenee]

I read the reviews of the fo’s on Nurture. Both have a few notes that say they soap beautifully. Perhaps the fo’s are just slow movers in your recipe. And that is a perfect mango color, Thanks for the pics!!

 

[KiwiMoose]

Nothing to add that would help your conundrum - but wow! You nailed the mango colour perfectly!

 

[Todd Ziegler]

Perfect mango color! So how does Island Oasis smell? Does it lend itself well to the mango theme?

The island oasis fits the mango theme perfectly. There's no coconut in the FO, it's a very fruity with a hint of floral notes to it. I believe if you smelled the soap you would say "yes that is mango"

Nothing to add that would help your conundrum - but wow! You nailed the mango colour perfectly!

Thanks, this is just a test batch for the colors and butter.

I read the reviews of the fo’s on Nurture. Both have a few notes that say they soap beautifully. Perhaps the fo’s are just slow movers in your recipe. And that is a perfect mango color, Thanks for the pics!!

Thanks. Yeah, I'm just going to wait it out and see what happens.

 

[Hope Ann]

Your lye was masterbatched right? So it seems unlikely; but ultimately anything is possible.
Is this the first time using those particular packages of butters? (again, wondering if they were adulterated)
I haven't used those fo's. I wonder if fo's can react differently with different oils and butters?

I can't wait to see the cut.(assuming you were going to post them) I've been using butters pretty regularly with my soaps this year...along with palm and lard and I don't like they're turning out. So I'm trying to see what recipes work well with butters.

My favorite soaps are lard and butter. Thick creamy lather and my skin is soft as a baby's butt.

Hope

The illipe is harder than kokum. With the lard it should definitely be hardening by now I would think. Very odd.

Hope

 

[Todd Ziegler]

The illipe is harder than kokum. With the lard it should definitely be hardening by now I would think. Very odd.

Hope

Yes I agree. However the mango bar is getting harder but the 3 butter bars are still soft and really oily now.

I think the problem is with illipe or muru butter. With the mango butter bars getting harder (slowly) but still it is getting harder. It is the only conclusion that I can draw.

 

[Megan]

I know some people wrap their soap to gel and don't look again till the next day, always made me wonder how they know the soap really gelled. When I cpop, I have to keep it at 170 or my recipe won't gel.

I have this same issue too. I never had a problem till I started using CA...now my soap has to get super hot before it gels...and at the same time I have to watch like a hawk so I don't get a volcano/tunneling.