Body Spray Problem

[gofastonit]

I am having a problem emulsifying orange essential oil in a body spray using polysorbate 20. I have read that your oil to poly ratio should start at 1:2 and depending on the oil used the ratio can go as high as 1:8.

I have had success with the following receipt:
.90oz water
.80oz Alcohol
.20oz Polysorbate 20
.10oz eucalyptus spearmint

When I use Orange I have gone as high as .80oz with the Polysorbate 20 without success.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[BattleGnome]

I don't have any practical experience with polysorbate, so this might need a grain of salt.

I read somewhere that the 20/60/80 in the polysorbate is a notation on how heavy of an oil the polysorbate is able to emulsifier. The 20 for light oils and 80 for heavier ones. You may not be using the appropriate emulsifier for the orange. From what I've read PS80 is just as good at emulsifying the light oils as it is the heavier ones. I couldn't tell you how heavy of a oil the orange EO is compared to the peppermint but I have a feeling that is the issue.

(Hopefully one of the science-y members can stop in and confirm/deny what I've said for sure.)

 

[Dahila]

use 2.5 times more of poly than oils 5 g of my oils needs 13 g of Poly 20 not poly 80. Essential oils in water need just poly 20. BTW orange is really heavy EO

 

[lsg]

Here is my go-to place for info. of that kind: http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2010/09/esters-using-polysorbates-in-your.html

 

[DeeAnna]

I've tried both and PS 20 has ~never~ given me the reliable results that I get from PS 80. Even though I have both on hand, I use PS 80 for any type of product that needs a solubilizer and I will never replace the PS 20.

When developing a recipe, I start with a 1:1 ratio of EO to PS 80 and add more PS 80 from there. The process of solubilizing isn't instant, so I always give the mixture some hours -- and preferably a day or two -- to see if I can get a clear result with the least amount of PS 80.

I'd say most of the products I've made have needed a 1:4 or 1:5 ratio to solubilize the EOs, but that's not necessarily going to be true for all products.

edit: Polysorbates are solubilizers when they are used to create a stable, clear solution from ingredients that are not normally soluble together (like oil and water). The clear result tells you the oil ~molecules~ are floating around in the water-based liquid to form a stable solution. (Solution <=> soluble <=> solubilizer)

Polysorbates can also perform the related but simpler task of emulsification, which means tiny oil ~droplets~ are floating around in the water-based liquid. If the oil droplets never separate, the emulsion is stable. An emulsion is usually translucent to opaque and is often somewhat to a lot thicker than the ingredients that went into the emulsion. (Emulsion <=> emulsification <=> emulsifier)

If you get a stable but cloudy oil-in-water emulsion by using a polysorbate, that's fine if that's what you want. You can stop there. To get a stable, clear solution with polysorbate, you might need to add a bit more polysorbate to break down those oil droplets into individual molecules.

Very few chemicals can do both tasks -- emulsification and solubilization -- but the polysorbates can manage both within limits.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the polysorbates are also synthetic detergents that happen to be very mild cleansers that don't lather much if at all. If you are looking for a "natural" solubilizer, the polysorbates are probably not something you'd want to use.

In recent years there was quite a kerfluffle about people's quest to formulate a "true" soap with a pH below 8. The secret ingredient added to some of these formulations was polysorbate. When the polysorbate is added to a liquid soap, the pH might indeed drop, but you no longer have a 100% "true" soap -- the mixture is a hybrid syndet-soap cleanser.

 

[IrishLass]

Ditto what DeeAnna said^^^.

For what it's worth, I've only ever used PS80. I use it for solubizing both carrier oils as well as FOs and/or EOs into my water-based products.

When it came to me deciding which polysorbate to buy/use, this blog entry by Susan Barclay-Nichols (aka Swiftcraftymonkey) helped me make up my mind. In the last paragraph of her blog post, she basically stated that if you were only able to buy one of them, go with the PS 80 because it can do the job of both. So that's what I did, and I've been very happy with my choice.


IrishLass

 

[Zany_in_CO]

With small 2 oz. batches like this one, I think you'll be happier if you formulate in grams (or mls) -- more specifically 100 gram (ml) batches. It's just easier to troubleshoot, size up or down or make adjustments from there. Make sense?

0.9 oz water
0.8 oz Alcohol <<< rubbing? perfumer's? vodka? Everclear?
0.2 oz Polysorbate 20
0.1 oz eucalyptus spearmint
2 oz. TOTAL

Figure the % of each ingredient to switch to grams:

45g water ~ 45%
40g Alcohol ~ 40%
10g Polysorbate-20 ~ 10%
5g eucalyptus spearmint ~ 5%
100 grams (3.5 oz.) TOTAL

I just checked my Orange Spray Cleaner -- the ratio is 1 Orange EO to 3 Polysorbate 20 so it appears 5 more grams of Polysorbate 20 should do the trick.

TIP: When working with EOs and polysorbate 20, I use volume measures. A general rule of thumb is 1:3 or 4, i.e., 1 teaspoon (5 ml) EO to 1 tablespoon (15 ml) Poly-20. Add the poly-20 to water first; stir; then add the EO and stir gently for a full minute. Let sit for a bit (or overnight) to see if it clears and there's no separation. Add one more teaspoon Polysorbate if needed.

NOTE: 190 proof Ethyl alcohol rate at 20% not only helps to preserve the batch but it also helps with dispersing the EO in water. So you may need more or less polysorbate, depending on what type of alcohol you use. 40% is good if using 80 proof vodka.?

For Body Spray, I'd add a titch (1%) of glycerin to help it stick.
:bunny:

 

[gofastonit]

Thanks for the replies. It sounds like I'll have to order some Poly 80 and give that a try.