Beeswax to harden soap

[Oxbow]

Hello,
I have heard that beeswax can make your soap bar harder.... but a friend tried and did not notice any difference.

What's your opinion about that ? Is beeswax the best cheap way to harden a soap, beside salt ?

thks

 

[IrishLass]

Welcome, Oxbow! Beeswax can indeed harden soap, but the level of hardness will vary on your soap formula and how much you add to to it. Besides beeswax and salt, some folks use stearic acid to harden their soaps. Probably the cheapest way to a hard soap is just to formulate with the right amount of hard fats.


IrishLass

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

I usually add Beeswax to all my soaps' it does make it a little firmer.

 

[Ladka]

I used beeswax at 8 %. Soap is fairly hard but (still) sticky.
I wonder if 8 % is too high or it is 53 % sunflower oil that makes it sticky even after 8 weeks of curing.

 

[Oxbow]

Stearic acid looks great, but just heard from a friend who makes soaps that it's forbidden in switzerland, it's illegal to sell it, and he got a huge bill because he tried order it online.
It's like NaOH, it's really hard to get, you need to sign papers and can only have a small amount... I guess it's different in some other countries ?

I will try with beeswax, salt and using only solid fat except olive oil, because I have heard olive oil becomes really hard after a certain time

 

[lsg]

You can also try using oils and fats that are high in stearic and palmitic fatty acids

 

[SoapHobbyJT]

Stearic acid looks great, but just heard from a friend who makes soaps that it's forbidden in switzerland, it's illegal to sell it, and he got a huge bill because he tried order it online.
It's like NaOH, it's really hard to get, you need to sign papers and can only have a small amount... I guess it's different in some other countries ?

I will try with beeswax, salt and using only solid fat except olive oil, because I have heard olive oil becomes really hard after a certain time

Do you think you could get a hold of hydrogenated soy wax instead? Here's one of the threads/posts I found about using soy wax in cp. Perhaps that can help with getting around that issue in Switzerland?

Other methods I've heard if the goal is a hard soap is using vinegar in your soap as well. The relevant thread I saw was here. It works as an alternative to sodium lactate from what I can tell, and you can use regular vinegar for it rather than anything fancy.

 

[GemstonePony]

Stearic acid looks great, but just heard from a friend who makes soaps that it's forbidden in switzerland, it's illegal to sell it, and he got a huge bill because he tried order it online.
It's like NaOH, it's really hard to get, you need to sign papers and can only have a small amount... I guess it's different in some other countries ?

I will try with beeswax, salt and using only solid fat except olive oil, because I have heard olive oil becomes really hard after a certain time

Sorry to hijack, but why is Stearic acid illegal? Edited, the following is corrected by Deanna below: I can get Stearic acid by cooling Shea butter or Mango seed butter mixed with a soft oil too slowly, and then picking the hard flakes out of the cooled mixture. I was trying to make body butter, so I wasn't pleased with this discovery, but still.

 

[DeeAnna]

Off topic response to @GemstonePony --

When a butter is melted and then chilled slowly, as you have done, some parts of the fat will solidify while other parts will remain liquid. The molecules of fat that solidify first are richer in saturated longer-chain fatty acids (especially palmitic and stearic acids), but the molecules are still fat molecules. They don't magically become fatty acid molecules.

This separation also happens with other fats, especially those higher in palmitic and stearic acid, which includes lard, tallow, palm oil, etc.

The portion of fat that solidifies first can be called "stearin" and the portion that stays liquid the longest can be called "olein". Stearin and olein are still all fats, however, despite the resemblance of the words to "stearic" and "oleic".

 

[GemstonePony]

Off topic response to @GemstonePony --

When a butter is melted and then chilled slowly, as you have done, some parts of the fat will solidify while other parts will remain liquid. The molecules of fat that solidify first are richer in saturated longer-chain fatty acids (especially palmitic and stearic acids), but the molecules are still fat molecules. They don't magically become fatty acid molecules.

This separation also happens with other fats, especially those higher in palmitic and stearic acid, which includes lard, tallow, palm oil, etc.

The portion of fat that solidifies first can be called "stearin" and the portion that stays liquid the longest can be called "olein". Stearin and olein are still all fats, however, despite the resemblance of the words to "stearic" and "oleic".

Ok. It looked/behaved similarly to the Stearic acid I also have, so I thought it was the same. Sorry for causing more confusion.

 

[Richard Perrine]

I used beeswax at 8 %. Soap is fairly hard but (still) sticky.
I wonder if 8 % is too high or it is 53 % sunflower oil that makes it sticky even after 8 weeks of curing.

My experience has been the sunflower oil.

@Oxbow> I use soy wax and it is certainly a cheap and effective option to hardening soaps.

 

[Ladka]

My experience has been the sunflower oil.

Thanks, that's good news. So time will put it right.

 

[Ladka]

Thanks, that's good news. So time will put it right.

It did in fact put it right. Now that the two bars remaining from the four I made are one year and four months old they are almost not sticky, they are hard and produce rich bubbles. The surface is rather dark brown which removes with use.
The cherry on top is the lovely scent of beeswax-honey that has remained in all these months. Love it!

 

[gloopygloop]

I like bees wax in some soap recipe's but I have never gone beyond 2%, it does tend to cut the lather down but not at a low percentage. Stearic wax also works very well without the cut in lather but you have the problem of instant saponification which in CP could be a nightmare. I would not use 53% sunflower oil personally and certainly not if it is not a high oleic version I would fear rancidity /DOS and a soft sticky soap, there are other options IMO.

 

[Ladka]

I would not use 53 % sunflower oil today either, although I always use HO. And I will certainly not use such a high percentage of BW either.
My point is in that it turned out fine, even very fine, after prolonged curing. Besides, it's not sticky any more and also definitely hard.
Soap will be soap

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Probably the cheapest way to a hard soap is just to formulate with the right amount of hard fats.

I have to agree with @IrishLass.
I feel sad every time someone comes up with yet another additive meant to harden a soap formula. TIP: Just keep tweaking a basic recipe until it meets your expectations.

a friend tried and did not notice any difference.
What's your opinion about that ?

My opinon matches your friend's. I've never known beeswax to harden soap, my own or others. I once convinced a wholesale customer to remove the beeswax from one of their soap recipes. They did it. Their customers noticed no difference in the soap. Personally, I thought it made a better bar without the beeswax.

I have heard olive oil becomes really hard after a certain time

That is true.

Soap will be soap

 

[Christa10]

I've worked with beeswax for candles and lotion bars and have been happy, but I noticed that when I tried to include it in cp soap (that included other oils and butters as well) it was kind of difficult for me to work with because it has such a high melting point that it was hard to let it cool down enough to add the lye because the beeswax kept on hardening up as it cooled. And I didn't notice that it had much effect on the end product, so I quit trying to use it. Would it work better if you did a hot process soap?

 

[gloopygloop]

I've worked with beeswax for candles and lotion bars and have been happy, but I noticed that when I tried to include it in cp soap (that included other oils and butters as well) it was kind of difficult for me to work with because it has such a high melting point that it was hard to let it cool down enough to add the lye because the beeswax kept on hardening up as it cooled. And I didn't notice that it had much effect on the end product, so I quit trying to use it. Would it work better if you did a hot process soap?

It would indeed be far easier to work with in HP as everything would stay at a heat level high enough to keep the BW from solidifying, but it would not change the outcome so if you did not think it made any difference to the final soap that would be the same with HP.

I think everybody's idea of hardness is probably different, for me adding it to "some" recipes just give's a feel that I like and to me it adds some extra firmness than if not using it, and that is with a recipe which is not high in soft oils its just that I like to firm up a little further and I like what I perceive as a slight creaminess to the finished soap.