Basic among Basics

[kdm]

Not wanting to sacrifice too much time, or material, I've dived straight in.

The only things I know about cold process soapmaking:
- add the lye to the water as it is massively exothermic
- you need oil and lye in very precise proportions

I looked at some commonly used oils and settled on a sunflower oil and olive oil mix. I used the-sage lye calculator, resulting in the following ingredients:
60ml water
25g lye
50g sunflower oil
150g olive oil

Slowly add NaOH to water, slowly add lye mixture to oil, give it a good whizz until "tracing" occurs.

I just want to see if I can get something resembling saponification before I get fancy.

Should this work?

Thanks,

 

[Marsi]

yes

it is easy to make a proportionally bigger mistake when making a batch this small
but with scales that are able to weigh to 2 decimal places
and careful attention to detail
it is possible to create a tiny batch

for ease of making, a 500g oil batch is less prone to weighing errors and scraping discrepancies

what is the weight of NaOH that you are using?

 

[kdm]

what is the weight of NaOH that you are using?

25g dissolved in 60g water.

TWO dp? Oh oh. There's a problem. My scale is to the nearest FIVE g!!

Might explain why it's still gel (with a thin layer of oil on top) after 12 hours...

but with scales that are able to weigh to 2 decimal places

I was thinking about this. Two decimal places of grams? I.e. tens of milligrams? It needs to be THAT accurate?
Or is two decimal places of kg sufficient?

 

[TheGecko]

60ml water

This is a problem...this is weight by volume, not weight by weight (grams or ounces). Now while water is the same amount whether you use volume or actual weight, other ingredients aren't. Think feathers and gold...while a pound is a pound...a pound of feathers can fill a dump truck, while a pound of gold fits in your hand.

I weigh all my ingredients, except for colorants as it is easier to use a measuring spoon as opposed to a scale.

 

[Megan]

I was thinking about this. Two decimal places of grams? I.e. tens of milligrams? It needs to be THAT accurate?
Or is two decimal places of kg sufficient?

For a batch that small you would want it to be pretty accurate. I would say to the gram at least. It seems though that your batch didn't trace however if it is in layers.

One thing you did not mention is paying attention to temperatures (for cold process soapmaking). You shouldn't soap too hot or too cold. For a beginner, they usually recommend around 38 Celsius. Which is just slightly warm to the touch. Lukewarm. Not hot.
You could also do room temperature. Especially with your oils.

 

[lenarenee]

I was thinking about this. Two decimal places of grams? I.e. tens of milligrams? It needs to be THAT accurate?
Or is two decimal places of kg sufficient?

A good scale that weighs single grams, without going into decimal points, is what many of us here in SMF use for soap making. (just claifying; single gram as in 50 grams of lye, rather than 50.4 grams of lye).

If you think you are going to continually make small batches; then a it could be wise to get a scale that measures into decimals, and also to know how pure your lye is.

 

[kagey]

This is a problem...this is weight by volume

I believe in the metric system: 1 ml = 1 gram.
so I don't think this will be a problem.

you've soaped at a lye to water ration that's more than 2:1
you've also used only "soft" oils
this will probably mean that it will take your soap longer than usual to solidify into a hard bar of soap.

I haven't found any major problem with rounding off number - or even going a bit over with my oils (I just consider it more "superfatting")

it sounds like you've got the important steps down:
add NaHO to water (not the other way around)
and stir & stck blend until emulsification

welcome to the soaping journey!

 

[Carly B]

I believe in the metric system: 1 ml = 1 gram.
so I don't think this will be a problem.

1ml = 1gm for water, which has a density of 1. So it's fine for water. But for most
ingredients, 1 ml does not equal 1 gm.

For example, 10ml of olive oil is 9gm (according to the Googles). So you can see there is a difference,
even in the smallest sample. So please don't assume ml = gm for anything but water.

 

[AliOop]

@kdm I agree with @kagey that there was way too much water for this cold processed (CP) soap. As a little background, most soap/lye calculators were built back in the day that the hot process (HP) soaping was the norm. HP requires a lot more water than CP, because water evaporates during the time that the HP soap is "cooked."

For that reason, most of us recommend that you don't use the default lye setting, which is always Water as Percent of Oils, and always set to 38%. Since that is the setting for HP soap, you end up with way too much water for CP soap. This is amplified when you make a recipe like yours with only "soft" oils, resulting in a very liquid batter that will take a long time to firm up.

Instead of the default lye setting, I strongly recommend that you select Lye Concentration. Set it to 33% as a good starting point for a beginner. The other lye setting, Water to Lye Ratio, is just another way to express Lye Concentration, so if you are more comfortable with a ratio like 2:1 instead of a percentage like 33%, then feel free to use that lye setting. But usually Lye Concentration is the easiest for beginners since it is one number to think about, rather than two.

 

[kdm]

This is a problem...this is weight by volume, not weight by weight (grams or ounces).

OKay, then, 60g of water. All my other measurements are in g and were weighed, but as you say 60g of water will barely touch the bottom of a dumptruck. Even if it's on the moon. ;-)

One thing you did not mention is paying attention to temperatures (for cold process soapmaking).

The Hydroxide solution was still warm from dissolving in the water, but the oil was room temp (although last night in the Midlands, room temp was about 28C!

Instead of the default lye setting, I strongly recommend that you select Lye Concentration. Set it to 33% as a good starting point for a beginner.

Ooof that TRIPLED the amount of Hydroxide for water! OKay.

Lessons are:

• Set Lye conc. to 33%
• Get better scales
• Employ some "harder" oils
• Don't be tight, just make a larger batch

Thanks, all.

 

[AliOop]

You have learned much today, Grasshopper!

NOTE: If you are willing to make batches of at least 500g, then a scale that measures to 1g is sufficient. You only need the more accurate scales if you want to continue making the uber-small batches like your first one.

Also, if that batch is still not firming up, consider setting it on a heating pad turned to high, and covering it with a box, or a piece of cardboard covered with a blanket. Applying that additional heat for a few hours will encourage "gel" - after which it is normally firm enough to unmold in about 24 hours. Might be longer tho with all the additional water + all soft oils.

 

[Babyshoes]

Using all liquid oils is a little tricky for your first recipe - I've found that they can take longer than you expect when stick blending to get to trace. Hopefully it'll all come together by tomorrow and start looking like soap, but it might take a few days after that to firm up.
If it doesn't turn into soap eventually, don't get too down, we all have failures at times, and as long as you learn from it, it's not wasted!

For next time, if you're willing to use animal products, lard is a very well behaved oil for soap making (slow trace, hard bar), and it's one of the cheaper oils here in the UK that doesn't have a high risk of rancid soap, unlike regular sunflower oil. It's only 39p for a 250g block in most supermarkets, and can be frozen if you want to buy a fair bit in advance. I like it at 40%, but you could go much higher, even up to 100%. Maybe add about 15-20% coconut oil (cheapest I've found recently was £2.50ish for 500g in Sainsbury's, iirc) and up to 50% olive oil (which you already have), and you can make a reasonably balanced, basic soap without spending awfully much money.

I'm sure the scale you have is adequate for now, just make slightly larger batches as already discussed. A gram or two here or there is really not much in a batch weighing 500g or more. Mine is certainly not the most accurate thing in the world (often changes by one or two grams a few seconds after you think it's settled) and I've made several successful batches since I started earlier this year.

 

[Marsi]

I was thinking about this. Two decimal places of grams? I.e. tens of milligrams? It needs to be THAT accurate?
Or is two decimal places of kg sufficient?

Small batches need accurate scales

As your batch size increases, your scales can be larger and less sensitive

for the small batch size you have
you can easily introduce a superfat variance of 2-3% if you use scales that round to the gram

 

[kdm]

OKay. Sucked up everything you guys said. Still trying to draw only on what I have lying around in the shed. New "tight-arse beginner's recipe."
100g olive oil
100g sunflower oil
100g (milk) butter
5g beeswax
123g NaOH
80ml water

A new set of scales which go to the nearest 1g.

This one, I could barely pour. I think it had started to gel before I could get it out of the jug. I did just about manage to mix in some mica power out of curiosity.
I even made a new silicone mould. (I am a liar. I made this mould ages ago for moulding polyester penturning blanks.)

Now I have to wait a MONTH before I find out if I made soap? OKay. Speak to you in October.

 

[Tara_H]

I haven't tried it myself, but I've read lots of things that say that dairy butter tends to smell bad in soap...
If you can get something like frytex over there it should be pretty cheap and a better source of hard fats.

 

[kdm]

I haven't tried it myself, but I've read lots of things that say that dairy butter tends to smell bad in soap...

Gotta be honest, this smells like soap. Already. You know what they say? "If it tastes like soap and smells like soap, it probably is soap."
...but it stings the tongue, so I won't be tasting large chunks of it any time soon.

 

[Marsi]

did your NaOH dissolve?
(the water quantity is too low for the weight of NaOH used; your soap may have undissolved NaOH)

an easy rule of thumb is to have your water range between one (50% solution) to two (33.3% solution) times the NaOH weight
(for a beginner recipe, more water can be helpful and a lye concentration range of 30% to 33% is often recommended)

*edited to add
I ran your recipe through a calculator
you have too much NaOH for the amount of oils you have
(the error is in the NaOH weight, not the water - could this be a typing error?)

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Now I have to wait a MONTH before I find out if I made soap? OKay. Speak to you in October.

The impatient might throw an eye on liquid soap instead of bar soap. If you have a sophisticated recipe, you can make soap from the oils to the dispenser bottle in three hours or less, and nobody will judge you for using soft oils or dairy butter.
It's just that a precise scale is even more important for LS than it is for bar soap.

ETA: Not wanting to distract from your actual inquiry, but sometimes a bit of a broader perspective can be helpful. A nutritionally healthy grocery store shelf just isn't a good place to find all ingredients for awesome bar soaps.

 

[kdm]

did your NaOH dissolve?
(the water quantity is too low and your soap may have undissolved NaOH)

You know, I wondered about this. The dissolving is exothermic and the heat probably allows more Hydroixide to dissolve. By the time I farted around stirring in mica, little streamers of white were starting to form on the lye, so my guess is it was coming out of saturation.

an easy rule of thumb is to have your water range between one (50% solution) to two (33.3% solution) times the NaOH weight
(for a beginner recipe, more water can be helpful and a lye concentration range of 30% to 33% is often recommended)

Yeah, did that, and put the absolute minimum quantity of water, as not using a hot recipe, but like I say I think that gave a saturated solution. The calculator suggested this would yield a hard soap and gave me the option of (up to) a further 40ml of water. I didn't add the extra water as I was afraid of cooling the solution further and maybe making more of the solute come out. Also, my first effort still isn't firm and I was desperately trying to make a hard soap.

I ran your recipe through a calculator
you have too much NaOH

Me too. I used the-sage.com. Which one did you use? Either way, I thin I'll do the same recipe again, but with 100ml water.

 

[kdm]

The impatient might throw an eye on liquid soap instead of bar soap. If you have a sophisticated recipe, you can make soap from the oils to the dispenser bottle in three hours or less, and nobody will judge you for using soft oils or dairy butter.
It's just that a precise scale is even more important for LS than it is for bar soap.

My sole interest is in bar soap. for family gifts, it just seems more "considered". Soap enthusiast may not judge, but they ain't met my family.

ETA: Not wanting to distract from your actual inquiry, but sometimes a bit of a broader perspective can be helpful. A nutritionally healthy grocery store shelf just isn't a good place to find all ingredients for awesome bar soaps.

"nutritionally healthy grocery store "???!?! I'm using crap I have lying around in my shed! But I think I see what you're saying.