Attempt #1 Pine tar

[Ant]

First attempt at making pine tar soap. Absolutely a

I did the method of splitting the oils, mixing the pine tar into one half of split oils, then added my eo/fo to. Second half of oils I mixed the lye solution into, brought to emulsion, then mixed in by hand 2 tbsps of achivated charcoal. Was at a light trace.

I got impatient and mixed oils and lye solution at 120f temp. Wish I had waited til room temperature. Grrrr.

Added the pine tar oil mix to the light trace batter, stirred by hand.

It was this beautiful, shiny very fluid black mixture for probably 20 seconds then BAM! Within 5 more seconds of stirring it turned to thicccccck batter. Got half of it into the mold, I was using my hands to smoosh it down. It was already taking the shape of the bottom of the bowl by the time I got to the bottom half of mixture.

It looks so bad. Had shiny chunks of soap, then this really gritty looking batter. Just looked under the lid and its pooling little bubbles of something on top.

How can I save it and make it presentable if whatever is pooling reabsorbs?

What should i have done instead? Other than soaping at room temp.

 

[Obsidian]

I think temp played a big part. You should have soaped as cool as possible to help slow down the seize.
How much PT did you use and what scent?

I'd wrap your soap and try to get a good gel going on, it can help get everything stuck together if your batter was chuncky going in the mold.
I've even stirred gelling soap in the mold just to make sure any chunky bits were mixed in well. I generally use a chop stick and the soap comes out looking like HP.

 

[Ant]

I'm kicking myself in the rear for soaping at that temp. So annoyed with myself for wanting to rush it. I knew it was a bad idea but severely underestimated how FAST it moved once the pine tar mixture was added.

I used 10% pine tar for the recipe, which was 3.5 oz.

Used 1 oz of orange 10x eo, 1 oz mahagonny fo which is a well behaved fo, and a little bit of litsea cubeba eo. Didn't measure but probably .5 oz of that, trying to get rid of it.

Didn't know gelling soap gets liquidity, will put the heating pad to it now.

 

[Obsidian]

I'm kicking myself in the rear for soaping at that temp. So annoyed with myself for wanting to rush it. I knew it was a bad idea but severely underestimated how FAST it moved once the pine tar mixture was added.

I used 10% pine tar for the recipe, which was 3.5 oz.

Used 1 oz of orange 10x eo, 1 oz mahagonny fo which is a well behaved fo, and a little bit of litsea cubeba eo. Didn't measure but probably .5 oz of that, trying to get rid of it.

Didn't know gelling soap gets liquidity, will put the heating pad to it now.

That is a very reasonable amount of pt and the scent blend shouldn't have caused any issues, so yep, temps was the likely culprit.

If it gets hot enough during gel, it will be like cake batter. You can gently try to insert a chop stick straight down, if there is resistance then its too solid to mix.
You don't have to mix it but it can help, it can also make a mess lol.

 

[DeeAnna]

Even if you'd make the next batch on the cooler side, you might have only gotten the same 20 seconds of grace as you got with this batch. But I agree with the others that you should do everything you can to keep the rodeo as calm and slow as possible by soaping cooler.

Also when you see the batter go from glossy to not quite as glossy, it's time to stop stirring IMMEDIATELY and pour. At that point, there's no more time for even one more go-round -- get 'er in the mold.

Lastly, don't judge a loaf of soap before it's cut. It actually doesn't look all that bad for pine tar.

Welcome to the Pine Tar Soaper's Club. You've passed your initiation!

 

[Ant]

If it gets hot enough during gel, it will be like cake batter. You can gently try to insert a chop stick straight down, if there is resistance then its too solid to mix.
You don't have to mix it but it can help, it can also make a mess lol.

Thank you for the advice to attempt some beautification. I have it wrapped in a heating pad along with some towels and aluminum foil. Will see if it gets gooey enough for that some chopstick maneuvers.

 

[Ant]

Even if you'd make the next batch on the cooler side, you might have only gotten the same 20 seconds of grace as you got with this batch.

Ahhhhhh! That is not good news lol will need to destress after making pine tar soaps. High stakes and nail biting. Will definitely soap as cool as I can get it for the next batch and pray.

Also when you see the batter go from glossy to not quite as glossy, it's time to stop stirring IMMEDIATELY and pour. At that point, there's no more time for even one more go-round -- get 'er in the mold.

Thank you so much for this insight! I was concerned that I wouldn't get the oil/tar mixture incorporated properly so kept stirring past that mark. Wasn't sure when I needed to stop.

Lastly, don't judge a loaf of soap before it's cut. It actually doesn't look all that bad for pine tar.

I don't mind an ugly duckling scenario... Concerning for me to see the liquid on top, thought perhaps it could have been the pine tar but it doesn't feel sticky.

Welcome to the Pine Tar Soaper's Club. You've passed your initiation!

Thanks In with the cool kids now lol Honestly I'm not a huge fan of how pine tar smells but OH wanted me to try it and make it for him.

 

[Obsidian]

Make sure to peak often, shouldn't take long to gel and you don't want it overheating and volcanoing.

I hate the smell of pine tar, smells like burning rubber to me but I do need to make a batch. I'm gonna double up on stink and add neem to mine

When I make pt, I mix the tar with just enough oil to thin it out, not half the batch. That way there isn't as much oil to get mixed in, not sure if it really makes a difference. I've had very well behaved pt batches, I've also had to pack it in the mold by hand.

 

[Ant]

Make sure to peak often, shouldn't take long to gel and you don't want it overheating and volcanoing

How long roughly do you usually force gel for with a heating pad? I just took a peak, the top was still hard, but its squishy under it like a shell. I poked a chopstick down in it and the bottom was soft (closest to the heating pad) will wait to see if the top softens more.

I hate the smell of pine tar, smells like burning rubber to me but I do need to make a batch. I'm gonna double up on stink and add neem to mine

This brand has a deep, liquid smoke smell to me. Definitely a hint of rubber but smells like funky smoke. I like how someone smells after they have been barbecuing, flannel shirt, cold night, bearded man vibes. But this is like days worth of smoke lol

When I make pt, I mix the tar with just enough oil to thin it out, not half the batch. That way there isn't as much oil to get mixed in

I think I will try that with a third batch. Soap at room temp first and stir way less and see if that turns out okay first. Then add that variable in to see how things are affected.

Seriously though, thank you for giving your input. I appreciate you sharing your experiences with me.

 

[Obsidian]

@Ant I never use a heat pad, just wrap in thick towels. The top will usually stay crusty like that, I just break it up and poke it down in the hot center.
Really, since its in a good gel, you should just leave it alone. Mixing it up won't improve the looks and not necessary unless you have pools of liquid on top.

What brand of tar do you have? I'm going to order brickmore and see if its less rubbery then the other stuff I had.

 

[Ant]

I ended up leaving it alone, top stayed crusty the whole time. Suppose I could plane the top to get a more finished look. Still has the droplets on it as of now.

The brand I bought was one of the ones deeanna suggested on her website.

https://classicbells.com/soap/pineTarSoap.asp
It has a really really strong scent, not sure if you would like it any better.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07PV1NJT7?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

 

[DeeAnna]

Oooh! I'm glad to see have the Auson "small batch" pine tar back in stock. It wasn't on the market for quite some time.

 

[Obsidian]

That pine tar is way too expensive for me. I just got the cheap stuff, lol.

If the drops don't absorb back in, you can dab them off with a paper towel.

You could always paint some dry gold mica across the tops, that would fancy it up some without having to cut any off.

 

[Ant]

Pretty penny for sure. I don't sell soap so not too worried about the price. Hope this doesn't expire fast because it would probably take me years to use it all up.

Haven't tried mica painting yet so that would be fun to try. Good idea

 

[Obsidian]

Pretty penny for sure. I don't sell soap so not too worried about the price. Hope this doesn't expire fast because it would probably take me years to use it all up.

Haven't tried mica painting yet so that would be fun to try. Good idea

I don't think it ever expires. When I first mentioned making pt soap to my grandmother, I wondered where I might buy it. She proceeds to produce a can she's had for 20+ years. Took me another 4 years or so to use it up.

 

[Ant]

Thats a cute story, such a grandma thing. Lol I didn't put a dent in the can. I wonder, did she make pine tar soap too? Maybe she made it once and the smell put her off. I'm hoping the smell mellows out. I'm in a fifth wheel so its close quarters.

 

[Obsidian]

No, she never used it in soap though she did make soap. The memories of mixing giant bowls of soap for hours in a snowbank by hand is what got me interested in soaping in the first place.

She had horses years back, sheep too. The smell will mellow a lot though it will always retain that smoky scent.
You think that is bad, you should try neem sometime. Smells like rotten onions, luckily it cures out.

 

[DeeAnna]

I use the expensive Auson stuff because most of it goes to clean my husband. He loves the stuff, so I make this soap for him as a special treat. (And if I have to smell it in the shower, I want to smell a campfire, not burning rubber!)

I sell a few bars here and there, and I do charge more per bar for the pine tar soap than I do for the others.

If you don't use other fragrance in PT soap (I don't), the expensive pine tar costs about the same as using an FO that costs $0.06 per gram (about $30 per 16 oz), and the PT is taking the place of other fats that would otherwise add to the batch cost. I agree that's spendy, but not waaaay out of the realm of reason.

 

[Ant]

Thats such a sweet experience. The time that I spent with my grandma are my most cherished memories.

I haven't tried anything neem, I think it has skin benefits too? Onions heating up with that lye doesn't sound appealing.

The smell already has died down. Yesterday it was so overpowering I had to vacate for a few hours. I can't smell the orange at all but the BB mahagonny is coming through the most. I've only used the popular eos like orange, lemongrass, lavender, litsea cubeba.

Any recommendations for a good eo/fo with a nice strong pinetree smell?

They didn't come out as bad as I pictured they would, deeanna was right about judging too soon. Your suggested gelling saved them. I did end up cutting the tops off. The shape was this big U from shoving it in there lol the sides are ugly but won't plane those or else they turn into tiny bars. Some of the liquid reabsorbed but blotted off the rest. They aren't as dark as pictured, but a very deep brown.

 

[Ant]

I use the expensive Auson stuff because most of it goes to clean my husband. He loves the stuff, so I make this soap for him as a special treat. (And if I have to smell it in the shower, I want to smell a campfire, not burning rubber!)

I don't notice any rubber smell coming from the Auson brand you recommended. Out of can, super strong but right now its mellowed out considerably than yesterday. I'm getting the smoke and the fo. If the smoke dies down more, I think he will like it.

He tried one from Dr. Squatch and that had this great piney tree smell he loved, I thought it was nice too but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't use much pine tar In it, like for label appeal. Manly man use pine tar as I roar from mountain marketing lol Used one from Grandpas company and that one he didn't care for, strong smoked meat smell.