Another way of curing soaps.

[gurmeet]

Hi all. Back again here after i made my first 1 pound batch of soap with coconut oil, olive oil and castor oil with no EOs and FOs presently. I think it's turned out okay. After going through all the blogs on the forum i came across Norah's excel sheet of curing soaps today which i found to be quite informative. Very helpful to the beginners at least.

Was just wondering................ Can we cure soaps in an oven since we can maintain a constant temperature there and i think will be able to suck moisture out of soap too . Not sure......... but just a thought if anyone tried and can enlighten us with the same.

Basically what i understood is that curing is what makes soap more appropriate for our usage after the evaporation of water ceases making it a bit harder with time. So if we can somehow give it a controlled temperature kind of environment can we do do curing in a faster way. Just as we maintain green houses for plants Can we do something for soaps too?

Presently where i am staying its rainy season here and the humidity levels vary from 65-75% which i monitored through a humidity monitor . If anyone can guide me for the same that how can i reduce humidity levels or how can i cure my soap in a much better way?

 

[Savage Daughter]

Absolutely no to the oven.

Just turn some fans on & aim them directly at your soaps. It is important to keep those soaps relatively cool & to ensure they have air flow in order to cure properly. Even in the humidity where you are, fans will help a great deal.

And remove them from the towel as that will hold humidity a well. Put them on some sort of a plastic rack which will allow air flow underneath them, as well as all around them.

 

[KiwiMoose]

It's always between 75 - 90% humidity here, winter or summer. My only solution was to purchase a dehumidifier for the small room where i store my soaps. It's a cheapie - only about $100. It's not bad, but it would be better if I had a bigger one so that my soaps don't sweat ( I can't justify spending circa $450 for a decent one).

The ideal place to cure soaps is somewhere airy, without humidity. Not always possible I'm afraid.

 

[gurmeet]

Okay. Thanks for the advice. I will put them directly under the fan. I do have a small dehumidifier too at my place. Will use that too. I just thought humidity was too high for the soaps where i stay. By the way, i placed my soaps in the small plastic basket since it was my first small batch. Just placed on the towel for the photograph. But thanks , will always make sure not to place them on the towel while curing. Just one more thing how do we make sure about when to exactly use the soap and measure it's pH since i read in the forum about that testing soaps with tongue which i don't prefer at all, phenolphthalein does not really helps as per written by one of the makers. Someone wrote about using ammonium chloride for the same. I always read that pH strips or phenolphthalein are the only 2 ways for detecting soap's pH. Any light on this ......

 

[DeeAnna]

The pH doesn't tell you anything about whether a soap is safe to use or not.

Phenolphthalein is NOT useful to determine soap pH.

***

The test that absolutely can prove whether a soap is skin safe is the free alkalinity test. It's NOT a simple pH test. If you want to do this, get Kevin Dunn's book Scientific Soapmaking. He has a chapter in which he explains exactly how to do this.

The next best alternative to the free alkalinity test is the zap test. There's a good explanation about how to safely do the zap test on this forum. Do NOT just lick the soap.

If you don't want to do either the free alkalinity test or the zap test, then you will simply have to trust to your skill as a soap maker -- use a soap recipe c@lculator to calculate the NaOH weight is correct, ensure your scale is accurate, measure ingredients with care, and let your soap cure at least 4 weeks before use.

 

[gurmeet]

Thankyou so much . You were of great help. I will definitely buy the book to read about it. All what i could see through the net and on selling websites of soaps the pH is mentioned on the packaging made me feel that pH is important as it measures the acidity or alkalinity of a substance. The book i have , mentioned about the phenolphthalein test for the soap for it's safe usage. As i am new to soap making i got very confused about the testing part but i think you made my queries quite clear and the left will be clarified after reading the book.

Anyways, i was very happy to hear from you as i can see on my screen you being a very old member of this forum, still very active will keep newcomers spirits up addressing the small queries.

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

Can we cure soaps in an oven since we can maintain a constant temperature there and i think will be able to suck moisture out of soap too . Not sure......... but just a thought if anyone tried and can enlighten us with the same.

I feel your pain @gurmeet. We were in India at the end of August in 2016. We’re having a record rainfall in New England this summer, but the temperatures are mostly peaking at 90°F. Nevertheless, my soap is very unhappy with the atmosphere in my house. All the windows are open with the fans blowing humid air and the soap just sucks it up.

A couple of days ago I discovered my electric oven maintained a steady temperature of 100°F to 110°F when I use the oven light as the sole heat source. Minimum warm setting is 170°F is too hot, even to use for preheating, because it causes silicone rash in my cavity molds. With the oven light, I can put my cavity molds through a gel phase again, so I’ll be using them more often.

But like you, I was wondering about curing soap after it is cut by putting it in the oven, because the bars were staying dry, i.e. they weren’t sucking moisture from the humid air during our rainy New England summer. I read in a couple of places that soap needs to cure in a cool, dark location. I can’t find information as to why that is necessary instead of a dry, warm location. In my case, the soap is lit by the oven light. Does anyone have an answer?

I ask because soap that has been forced through gel has gone through saponification, and the crystal structure is already set to what, I assume, is neat soap.

cure=saponification+crystallization+dehydration

Doesn’t that mean the cure for fully gelled or HP soap is primarily to remove water from the soap? Don’t warm temperatures also accelerate loss of fragrance? Is that the reason to cure in a cool location? I could not find answers to this question in Kevin Dunn’s Scientific Soapmaking.

Advice please?

 

[paradisi]

I feel your pain @gurmeet. We were in India at the end of August in 2016. We’re having a record rainfall in New England this summer, but the temperatures are mostly peaking at 90°F. Nevertheless, my soap is very unhappy with the atmosphere in my house. All the windows are open with the fans blowing humid air and the soap just sucks it up.

A couple of days ago I discovered my electric oven maintained a steady temperature of 100°F to 110°F when I use the oven light as the sole heat source. Minimum warm setting is 170°F is too hot, even to use for preheating, because it causes silicone rash in my cavity molds. With the oven light, I can put my cavity molds through a gel phase again, so I’ll be using them more often.

But like you, I was wondering about curing soap after it is cut by putting it in the oven, because the bars were staying dry, i.e. they weren’t sucking moisture from the humid air during our rainy New England summer. I read in a couple of places that soap needs to cure in a cool, dark location. I can’t find information as to why that is necessary instead of a dry, warm location. In my case, the soap is lit by the oven light. Does anyone have an answer?

I ask because soap that has been forced through gel has gone through saponification, and the crystal structure is already set to what, I assume, is neat soap.

cure=saponification+crystallization+dehydration

Doesn’t that mean the cure for fully gelled or HP soap is primarily to remove water from the soap? Don’t warm temperatures also accelerate loss of fragrance? Is that the reason to cure in a cool location? I could not find answers to this question in Kevin Dunn’s Scientific Soapmaking.

Advice please?

The problem with extended curing under heat is that degradation due to heat exposure is cumulative.

The scientific expression is heat work, that is, heat x time. Lower heat over a longer time still degrades the materials.

Also, the heat generated during natural gel is accomplished much more quickly & before the final product is finished, i.e. heat applied afterwards is applied to a somewhat different substance than what went into the pot.

(Yes you baked the custard at a higher heat than then leaving it on the burner at a low heat for two days... but that previous heat doesn't prevent further damage at lower heat).

And yes, curing or storing soap under heat will degrade fragrance. There's more to that than evaporation.

Curing is not just for drying, that's been explained well here in several threads by DeeAnna. There simply isn't a shortcut to well cured, aged soap (or wine or cheese... )

 

[TheGecko]

There is three parts to the 'curing' process:

1) The completion of the saponification process. Whether you are using Hot or Cold Process...it takes about 24 to 48 hours. Now I know that Hot Process speeds up saponification, but not everyone 'cooks' the same so giving it some extra time doesn't hurt anyone. And while many websites will tell you that HP soap is 'safe' to use after it cools and CP soap is 'safe' after 48 hours...which is technically is as all the Sodium Hydroxide is used up...there is a big difference between soap that is safe to use and soap that is good for your skin.

2) Water evaporation. Technically one could just use a higher Lye Concentration (up to 50%) and skip this part since less water to begin with means less water to evaporate, but (IMHO), making soap is like making bread. Sure, I can stick my dough in a proving drawer which will make the dough rise faster, but faster doesn't always mean better. Which brings to the last part.

3) Magic. So okay, it's not actually magic it's science, but it's still pretty amazing what happens to a bar of soap over time. Curing your soap is the difference between a glass of moonshine and a glass of Bhakta 50...between that burns going down and hitting your stomach like a ton of brick, or goes down like silk and warms the cockles of your heart.

Anyone can make soap, but not everyone can make a good soap. I prefer to make good soap.