Am I overly worried about lye?

[amd]

Help yourself to a vigourous objection.

I thought you were quitting?
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/giving-up.76658/
After all the encouragement that came in this thread, I would think you'd be a little less snarky about someone giving you advice that could save you pain OR EVEN YOUR EYEBALLS.

To everyone else: Please don't be an idjit. Wear gloves. Wear eye protection. And if you don't, please don't tell us about it.

 

[Soulboy1973]

I thought you were quitting?
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/giving-up.76658/
After all the encouragement that came in this thread, I would think you'd be a little less snarky about someone giving you advice that could save you pain OR EVEN YOUR EYEBALLS.

To everyone else: Please don't be an idjit. Wear gloves. Wear eye protection. And if you don't, please don't tell us about it.

Thank you for the wonderful reply, really nice of you. Everyone in the 'quitting' thread was and still are really nice. Just because you don't agree with what I said doesn't give you the right to call me snarky.

 

[MGM]

I did get a good tip the other day which I thought was good. When washing up, rather than washing your gear immediately, unless you are soaping all day of course, then simply leave your gear, blender bottom, jugs, etc for a day while the gunk turns to soap and the lye is neutralised through saponification then it is safer and easier to wash up. I am definitely going to try that next batch.

This is true, but....DO wipe up as much as you can while the batter is wet, with paper towels or old towels, however you do it. I always let my dishes sit and wash after saponification, but after my 30-min pour the other day, I got tired and just left everything (original bowl plus 5 colour pitchers and 5 stirrers/spatulas) where they were. And they weren't super scraped out because the soap I was making needed very fluid batter, and once it slowed down a bit I didn't scrape as well; I just abandoned it all.
Anyway, point is, when I came back a week later, it wasn't just a thin layer of soap, as I'm used to when I wipe well....it was A LOT of soap coating every inside surface of those 6 containers. Clean up took about 4x as long as it should have.
So! Wipe, then leave, then wash.

 

[jcandleattic]

I know many people will not want to hear this but I don't use gloves or eye protection, I am just careful.

Yep you're right -- I don't need to hear this. I also do not want the new soap makers reading this forum to think this is acceptable practice. So I'm vigorously objecting. Permanent eye damage will happen within seconds with the highly concentrated lye solutions we are using. Even if there isn't permanent damage, a tiny droplet of soap batter or lye solution in the eye is incredibly painful and takes weeks to heal.

Sh*t happens no matter how careful you are. I work with care too, but I still wear goggles. I've been around hazardous chemicals for years and have seen enough accidents to know just how very simple, quick, and easy it can be to get badly hurt. Especially eyes.

Hey, each to their own. I haven't asked anyone to follow my methods, I did say if you want to wear the gear wear it. Help yourself to a vigourous objection.

Apparently you have not heard of "accidents" because, yes they happen -
See post #3 on this thread - https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/eye-protection.27050/
Had I not been wearing eye protection I very well could have sight impairment right now. I don't, because I was wearing protection.

you do not have to explicitly SAY for people to follow what you do, but if new soaper sees your information on the forum, how are they going to know you are not giving out advice, or know that you are not advocating for a certain style of soapmaking? It's just not good forum etiquette.

I think what @amd and @DeeAnna were getting at was the above and how other forum users would interpret your comment as advice, whether that's how you meant it or not.

 

[Michelle0803]

Respect the Lye ALWAYS!

I learned the hard way. I had taken my glasses off, tapped my soap one final time and ended up with soap in my eye. I ended up at a specialist to treat my eye and was lucky that he was available on the day that I got injured. The pain, medical bills and healing time will always serve as a reminder to make sure those goggles are on.

I got lucky and suffered no permanent damage to my eye, but I was in pain for days and had to wear a patch over my eye to help the healing process. It took almost 6 weeks for my eye to completely heal. All because I took my glasses off and had to tap that soap one more time! Accidents happen and can be painful.

 

[Soulboy1973]

Please ALWAYS wear your gloves and Eye protection.

 

[cmzaha]

"...I know many people will not want to hear this but I don't use gloves or eye protection, I am just careful. I don't slosh it around, I mix it into my water carefully and pour it into my oils slowly and carefully...."

Yep you're right -- I don't need to hear this. I also do not want the new soap makers reading this forum to think this is acceptable practice. So I'm vigorously objecting. Permanent eye damage will happen within seconds with the highly concentrated lye solutions we are using. Even if there isn't permanent damage, a tiny droplet of soap batter or lye solution in the eye is incredibly painful and takes weeks to heal.

Sh*t happens no matter how careful you are. I work with care too, but I still wear goggles. I've been around hazardous chemicals for years and have seen enough accidents to know just how very simple, quick, and easy it can be to get badly hurt. Especially eyes.

We get one set of eyes and from one with chronic eye problems, I do all I can to protect them. My glasses are large so I do not wear safety glasses, but I have had batter splash on my glasses and ended up with a spot where the coating is gone. Thankfully it was not in my eye. I do not wear long sleeves because I want to get to any splashes quickly and not soak into clothes. As you say, accidents do happen and very quickly, which is why they are called accidents and not planned.

 

[szaza]

I'm so sorry to hear that happened to you @Michelle0803 ! But I'm glad you didn't have permanent eye damage..
Lye is something to be careful with and eye protection is an absolute must. Thanks for sharing your story!
I think knowing that I'm well protected helps me feel safe while handling lye. The first batch of soap I ever made I did together with my boyfriend. He works in a chem lab and liked the chemistry side of it (but got bored after one batch). He made sure I was wearing proper equipment (goggles and gloves) and showed me how to handle lye (not tapping the spoon I measure with for example, which I tend to do in cooking). Since he's worked with lye and many other (more dangerous) chemicals, he was really relaxed about it, which helped me calm down as well.
Not too long ago I came across this video of a chemist making soap:
It's quite long and goes quite deep into the chemistry of soapmaking (and it's clear he's not an experienced soaper, he used glass and adds way too much EO). But around 6:30min he's also quite relaxed about lye and I think this video might help new soapers get over their fear of lye as long as they realize GLASS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA FOR SOAPING! And please, look up EO usage rates here. Also, don't purposely repeat the way he handles lye.

( !rant! what's up with chemists and using glass to mix lye solution? My boyfriend explicitly told me to use glass when I first started out and when I told him everybody on this forum was against glass he asked around in his lab and apparently all his colleagues would also have advised using glass instead of plastic. I think the experience of so many soapers on this forum that glass can shatter when mixing lye solution or soap batter is better advice than a chemist taking an informed guess, but I did find it strange and still can't wrap my head around how so many people who should know so much about it can give such bad advice.. I talked about it with my boyfriend and we came to the conclusion a soaper's lye solution is quite strong, and turnover of lab glass is quite high. Anyway, end of rant)

 

[DeeAnna]

"...what's up with chemists and using glass to mix lye solution?..."

Chemists are used to using really tough borosilicate glassware -- the kind you'd buy in a specialty labware catalog. The "real" Pyrex with a capital P.

This glass is resistant to concentrated alkalis, so it's honestly no big deal for them to use it with NaOH. Glass has other benefits in the analytical lab in that it can be rigorously cleaned to remove chemical contamination that might affect their test results. Plastics and metals don't work as well for sensitive chemical work. So, yeah, chemists get into the mindset of using glass for a lot of their work. They don't always realize when they get outside the lab that this mindset isn't necessarily the safest or most sensible way to go.

Also consider their work environment. If a chemist is using this glassware with chemicals like concentrated NaOH solution, they might also be working in a vent hood or at least in the controlled environment of a dedicated lab area. The bench top, flooring, etc. will be made of chemical resistant materials and there's an eye wash and emergency shower close by, etc. It makes sense for a chemist to use glassware in the analytical chemistry lab, but that's not the same as using glass with lye solution in a person's soap kitchen.

People outside a chem lab don't generally have access to lab quality of glassware nor to this type of controlled, specialized work environment. I know Amazon, eBay, etc. supposedly sell borosilicate glass, but there's no way to tell if the glassware from these sources is the real deal or a knockoff.

And there's the consequences of a simple accident where glass is dropped and breaks from simple accident -- even borosilicate can shatter if dropped or damaged. Accidents with glassware do happen in the chem lab -- my chemist friend cut the tendons in her ring finger when the neck of a flask unexpectedly shattered and a shard drove into her hand.

 

[szaza]

Thanks for the clarification @DeeAnna , it's something that's been bugging me for a while now... I don't have a lot of chemistry knowledge, so it's hard for me to understand how chemists work. Thanks for making it easier to understand!
I hope your friend is doing better.. cutting your tendons is no joke, especially when there's a possibility of chemical contamination from the class that cut them
Polypropylene plastic and stainless steel are serving me fine for now. We're lucky to have a reputable chemistry store nearby, so if I ever decide I want to use glass again for whatever reason I'll be sure to get real borosilicate from them.

 

[sirtim100]

Well, after reading this thread, I just rushed out and bought some safety glasses, like normal glasses but bigger (make me look like a Japanese existentialist). The other goggles I had slipped at the worst possible moments because the band had elastic fatigue or some other weird syndrome.

I like my eyes very much and want to keep my vaguely shorted squint...

Happy soaping, everyone

 

[DeeAnna]

...I hope your friend is doing better.. cutting your tendons is no joke, especially when there's a possibility of chemical contamination from the class that cut them...

I have no idea what my friend was working on the day of her accident, but I imagine cleaning up the chemical contamination in the wound probably did complicate things. The cut tendons were the ones that allow you to curl your fingers into a fist. At first, the surgeon said they'd just clean the area and suture it closed, because it was "only" her left hand so function wasn't that important. She informed him she was left handed and he needed to figure out a better plan ... fast. Knowing my friend, she would have been pretty emphatic about her expectations. The tendons were repaired as best as could be done. She eventually regained a lot of the range of motion in that finger, but not all. I did my best to learn from her bad experience -- that was scary.

 

[szaza]

I have no idea what my friend was working on the day of her accident, but I imagine cleaning up the chemical contamination in the wound probably did complicate things. The cut tendons were the ones that allow you to curl your fingers into a fist. At first, the surgeon said they'd just clean the area and suture it closed, because it was "only" her left hand so function wasn't that important. She informed him she was left handed and he needed to figure out a better plan ... fast. Knowing my friend, she would have been pretty emphatic about her expectations. The tendons were repaired as best as could be done. She eventually regained a lot of the range of motion in that finger, but not all. I did my best to learn from her bad experience -- that was scary.

Glad to hear she got most of her range of motion back! It could've been worse, especially if she would've let that surgeon just stitch her up.. good for her for standing up for herself!

 

[Mistrael]

OMG @DeeAnna! I'm a cook by trade and I've never come close to that kind of injury! The worst I've ever done is slicing a good layer off the pad of one thumb. It was enough that a normal person would have stopped everything and gone to the ER... but I just cleaned it, taped a bandage on tightly, put a glove on, and went back to cooking.

I'm more chill about lye than some, but even I wear safety goggles. Amazon had a nice pair that goes over my regular glasses for $10 or so. They're pretty comfy, considering it's 2 pairs of glasses.

I also wear non-latex gloves because I'm allergic to latex and I NEED my hands. Even though I'm disabled and only cook at home, my hands are almost more important than my eyes. All my hobbies are hands on, and having to sit around with nothing to do because of a chemical burn would make me crazy. It's not that it would hurt any more than elsewhere, but that it would impede other areas of my life.

But I've had enough scalds and burns on my arms that a splash of lye there is no big deal. I've worked with all kinds of hot oils and massive deck ovens at 400-500°F, so... I barely own any clothes with long sleeves anyway, and what I do have I'd rather keep nice. If you run straight to the sink when you burn yourself, use long sleeves. If you're like me and would rather burn yourself than drop or burn food... As my husband says when running a D&D game, "Do you do this of your own free will?"

That said, I do soap in my kitchen, and I don't play when it comes to cross contamination. No food in the soap, no soap in the food! I use specific, lidded plastic containers for my lye and measure it directly into the water directly next to the sink. If I found a way to do it IN the sink, I would, if only to keep clean up simple. As it is, my lye is stored double-bagged in heavy plastic, and I set the whole thing in the sink to scoop it out. (Wide mouth container. Next time I'm getting a pour-friendly bottle.)

I also do things in a particular order to ensure the lye is in play as briefly as possible. The chef's "mise en place" doesn't just work for cooking! I clean up before soaping to make sure nothing is in the way, then set up for soap. All equipment and ingredients come out, double-check it's everything I need and my mental plan is sound, then start measuring. I measure oils first, make sure my kids know to stay away, then check my set up one more time, and then it's lye time. I'm still doing small, beginner size batches, so a mask and moving outside isn't really necessary. I keep goggles on, work with deliberate care, and put the lid on the lye solution before cleaning up. It's a twist on lid (thank you Dollar Tree) so knocking it over wouldn't be a catastrophe either. So then I stash my lye under the sink again - because it has safety latches - wipe everything in the lye zone down, put away my scale, and by then my solution is clear and hard oils are melted.

Basically, certain mindful procedures allow me to feel comfortable while soaping and cooking in the same place. But I won't risk my good pots on lye, so I use Dollar Tree plastic for now.

 

[TheGecko]

I think you’re freaking out a bit much. I wash my soaping equipment in the dishwasher with my regular dishes and nobody has died or even gotten sick. I use the same sponge to wash everything...pots and pans, counter tops, my soaping island, etc. Sponge gets tossed in the washer machine along with hand towels (I use them instead of paper towels).

All you need to use is common sense. Protect your eyes and skin when making soap. Don’t drink from the same container that you mix lye in. Clean up spills. And have fun.

 

[Shaylyn Valdez]

Girl, I know exactly how you feel!!
When I made my first batch of soap (after months of research) I realized that I didn't know much about how to clean up afterwards. I was sure that I was going to kill our pets/poison and blind myself and my husband if I didn't do a full 'Hazmat' cleaning of the kitchen!! I went through half a gallon of vinegar cleaning every possible surface I may have touched and got down on my hands and knees to scrub the kitchen floor with vinegar before I would let my husband and our pets back into the area!! I was so stressed out that I sat down and cried afterwards and wasn't sure if I would EVER make soap again...
But here I am over 10 years later still making soap

That’s exactly how I felt haha! Hit the nail right on the head! I thought I’d never make it again and that I made a mistake making soap, but with all of your replies I got over it and am having the time of my life haha.

 

[Karmic]

Lye doesn't bother me, I've used it as a drain cleaner and to strip the seasoning off old cast iron skillets when restoring them from old rusted messes. After having to fish pans out of a water bath comprised of 1 lb lye to 3 gallons of water it doesn't phase me. It can be unnerving, but gloves really will hold up against it. If you're concerned I'd recommend longer kitchen style gloves to shorter disposable one and just rinse them/reuse them and check for any holes/wear and tear between batches.

I'd also recommend if you're worried about clean up look into getting some type of inexpensive disposable plastic drop cloths like you would use for painting. I have ones that come in a 30 something box, cut them in half and it fits nicely over the entirety of my table but hangs down just enough I can lay some on the floor to stand on in case I accidentally slop there or drop things. And since they're dropcloths they're designed to be walked on and are pretty nonslip. Then everything just gets folded up and tossed out with minimal wipedown needed.

 

[Nelo Monteverde]

Hi. Im a Chemist by profession and have been working in the Industry since I graduated in 2004. I have witnessed accidents involving chemicals a lot of times and its not a pretty sight. I have handled large quantities of Sodium Hydroxide for pre-production, testing and actual production of cosmetic products so I can attest to everyone saying to respect Lye as a it is. Always use protection, doesn't matter if its in large or small quantity it can still be potentially damaging. When I started making soap for my family at home, I lectured everyone about the dangers of Lye and how to handle it in case they have to. I use chemical gloves, protective goggles and a chemical apron when making homemade soaps same thing that we use in the factory. I encourage everyone to use protective gears. Better safe than sorry.