Always need lotion after my soap!

[Novaré]

I have been making and experimenting with soap for almost a year now and I haven’t been able to find the right combination of oils that won’t require me to use lotion afterwards.

How can I get my soap to leave my skin feeling moisturized and conditioned? I’ve tried low coconut oils and high conditioning oils like olive and avocado and I’ve tried using high super fat levels but nothing take away that “squeaky clean” feeling. I am starting to feel lost when creating my recipes.

 

[cmzaha]

What is your average cleansing number? I have to keep the cleansing number below 12 in my soaps and compensate for lather by using low superfat, chelators, and sorbitol. All you are accomplishing with high superfat is washing with oil and running free oils down your drains, which plumbing does not like.

 

[DeeAnna]

Also are you washing with hard water or softened water? And are you including a chelator in your soap? Sometimes that "squeaky feeling" can come from soap scum on the skin. Soap scum is worse if soap is used in hard water especially without a chelator.

Soap functions as a cleanser; it cannot moisturize or condition the skin. I want my soap to be mild and not drying to the skin, but soap is not ever going to take the place of a good lotion or other leave-on moisturizer if the skin is dry enough to need some help.

If your skin is normally sensitive or rather dry, you might also have to think about the idea that lye-based soap might not work well for your skin. Some people have to use non-soap cleansers.

 

[cmzaha]

Also are you washing with hard water or softened water? And are you including a chelator in your soap? Sometimes that "squeaky feeling" can come from soap scum on the skin. Soap scum is worse if soap is used in hard water especially without a chelator.

Soap functions as a cleanser; it cannot moisturize or condition the skin. I want my soap to be mild and not drying to the skin, but soap is not ever going to take the place of a good lotion or other leave-on moisturizer if the skin is dry enough to need some help.

If your skin is normally sensitive or rather dry, you might also have to think about the idea that lye-based soap might not work well for your skin. Some people have to use non-soap cleansers.

DeeAnna is correct, about some folks not being able to use lye-based soap in other words "Soap". Years ago I had a customer that could not use soap at all. I tried several different recipes for her and it was a no-go. She had to stick to synthetic m&p. She would not be able to use today's m&p that is soap-based it would still have to be the syndet bars. Handmade lye soap is not the end-all answer for everyone as much as some like to think it is.

 

[Novaré]

So I’ve never gone as low as 12 for my cleansing number, I will try that. Also, thank you for the information about the properties of soap. I never thought the root of the problem could be my skins sensitivity, it’s definitely something I need to keep in mind moving forward.
I also think I have hard water.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

If you're not opposed to using animal fats, lard soap makes the best soap for sensitive skin. Add 10% coconut and 5% castor to boost lather. NOTE: Actually lard was used to clean newborns early in the 20th century according to my friend, Nancy the Nurse whose mother was a neonatal nurse at that time.

Basic Trinity of Oils seems to work well for all types of skin and is the formula found most often in popular online soap sellers.

Examples: Green Mountain Soap, Trader Joe's Tea Tree Soap (discontinued)

Zany's No Slime Castile is a very mild soap with cold cream like lather. SMF favorite for sensitive skin. I like the 10% coconut and 5% castor with 85% olive oil variation best.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Also it may be worth omitting some oils altogether to check sensitivity. Some people do not like high olive oil soap, or they have a sensitivity to coconut, etc.
Maybe post your recipe so we can troubleshoot? When you say you've tried low coconut oil - how low is low? I use it at 20% in my recipe and that's high for a lot of people.

 

[Quilter99755]

Since finding this site, I've found my skin doesn't like olive oil, chelators improved the feel of the soap/skin and the amount of scum on my tub and sink, changed from OO to lard and RBO and use coconut oil at 10% or less (keeping my cleaning numbers around 7-8). Yes, I still use lotion on my old skin. But usually just after a shower or washing up at the sink. Far, far less than when I was still on commercial soaps or using olive oil. I hope you find some answers in this forum...I sure did

 

[ostmandrell]

What is your average cleansing number? I have to keep the cleansing number below 12 in my soaps and compensate for lather by using low superfat, chelators, and sorbitol. All you are accomplishing with high superfat is washing with oil and running free oils down your drains, which plumbing does not like.

use baking soda and vinegar with boiling water down your drain it's very good and not that expense. I do this every week

 

[TheGecko]

How can I get my soap to leave my skin feeling moisturized and conditioned?

You can't because that is not the purpose of soap. What you want to do is to be able to clean your skin without stripping it of its natural oils.

You also have to realize that the skin on your hands take a lot of abuse on a daily basis. I commute to work...that's two hours a day my hands are on the steering wheel exposed to ultraviolet light even on cloudy days. And then there is sun and wind on days I can roll down my windows...heat and A/C when I can't. I work in an office, I handle paper all day long and it sucks up the oils from my hands. When not making soap I knit and crochet...yarn dries out your skin. Everyday things...cooking, doing laundry, cleaning, working in the yard, etc...it all takes a toll. I've always needed lotion, I just need less lotion these days. At the same time, I'm getting older so my skin doesn't retain as much moisture as it used to.

 

[Misschief]

You can't because that is not the purpose of soap. What you want to do is to be able to clean your skin without stripping it of its natural oils.

You also have to realize that the skin on your hands take a lot of abuse on a daily basis. I commute to work...that's two hours a day my hands are on the steering wheel exposed to ultraviolet light even on cloudy days. And then there is sun and wind on days I can roll down my windows...heat and A/C when I can't. I work in an office, I handle paper all day long and it sucks up the oils from my hands. When not making soap I knit and crochet...yarn dries out your skin. Everyday things...cooking, doing laundry, cleaning, working in the yard, etc...it all takes a toll. I've always needed lotion, I just need less lotion these days. At the same time, I'm getting older so my skin doesn't retain as much moisture as it used to.

Amen to all of this! I work in a print shop... can we say dry hands much?? And I'm a knitter... dry hands again. I love my soap but I'm constantly slathering on lotion.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Just buy some Dove y'all - with 1/4 moisturising cream!!

 

[Susie]

I have also found that the relative humidity in the air makes a huge difference in how often I have to apply lotion. I am from humid Louisiana, and I am easily using three times as much lotion now that I have moved to DFW. Even southeast Texas had more humidity than up here. And aging does not help at all. I have giant bottles of lotion located everywhere I frequently go in the house. I did get through the first winter ever without any skin cracks on my hands with this new lotion, though, so I am making progress.

 

[Zing]

Might I suggest homemade lotion bars?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Might I suggest homemade lotion bars?

Made with Lanolin USP maybe? I had a wholesale customer in Long Island who catered to the wool/knitters/quilters crowd. She sold her wares at conventions, other events, and online. Her whole line consisted of lanolin-based -soaps, -liquid soaps, -lotions, -awesome herbal healing balm, -lip balms.

As for me, even in Colorado's dry climate, I no longer need to slather up with lotion ever since I made my first soap in 2003 at age 60. All my products are formulated for our alpine desert climate. My skin feels baby soft and smooth... not braggin'; just sayin'.

 

[WeLoveWabiSabi]

For those of you saying you can't get your soap to leave you feeling conditioned and moisturizing because it's a cleanser, if that were the case why is moisturizing and conditioning even in the properties chart. I would definitely think that the higher the amount of glycerine in soap would help to moisturize your skin.

I understand soap is a wash off product, but surely some of the oils stay on the skin. I've left the shower before still smelling like the scent of my soap. The only time I really need lotion is in the winter because of the forced air heart. Of course every skin is different, but I think soaps do leave behind oils (and detergent, in the case of some store bought soaps) and such which help keep the skin from drying out.

 

[DeeAnna]

@WeLoveWabiSabi -- "...why is moisturizing and conditioning even in the properties chart ..."

"Moisturizing" isn't a property in any of the soap recipe calculators I've seen. What is the calc that does have it?

You are right that the "conditioning" number is provided by most calcs, but it should probably be called "mildness" or some other word that comes with a little less baggage compared to "conditioning." Someone chose that word some decades ago, however, and it's not likely to change any time soon.

The conditioning number is the combined total percent of the oleic, linoleic, linolenic, and ricinoleic fatty acids in the recipe. It's essentially a measure of the unsaturated fatty acid content.

A soap high in unsaturated fatty acids is highly water soluble, generally has a low creamy lather, and tends to be fairly mild to most (but not all) people's skin. Soap high in oleic acid easily absorbs water to make a thick, stringy oleic soap gel (also called snot or slime) that can be unpleasant. Soap high in polyunsaturated fatty acids (linoleic and linolenic) is more prone to becoming rancid quickly.

Arguably if these unsaturated fatty acids made a soap that made lotion unnecessary, then I'd expect a lot of us would be making soap high in these fatty acids and absolutely loving it. That's not generally the case. Most people who are wanting a mild, non-stripping soap tend to use a high percentage of lard, palm oil, or the nut butters. These fats are rich in stearic and palmitic acids -- saturated fatty acids.

So the "conditioning" number isn't really a good measure of "conditioning" or mildness, for that matter.

Unfortunately these properties and their names were all defined some decades ago and they're kind of written in stone by now. We newcomers might not think these numbers and their names are as accurate as they could be, but that's not something we have a lot of control over.

"...the amount of glycerine in soap would help to moisturize your skin ..."

That might be true, but none of the properties you're talking about take glycerin into consideration. These numbers are based only on the percentages of fatty acids, nothing else.

 

[TheGecko]

For those of you saying you can't get your soap to leave you feeling conditioned and moisturizing because it's a cleanser, if that were the case why is moisturizing and conditioning even in the properties chart. I would definitely think that the higher the amount of glycerine in soap would help to moisturize your skin.

A couple of things here. 1) We make soap, it will get you clean. As professional soap makers, that is the only claim we can make unless we want a visit from the FDA (United States) examining our colons. Yes, there are soap makers out there that do make cosmetic and drug claims, but either they are taking their chances or are under the FDA. Speaking for myself, I have way too much money invested to want to jeopardize business.

2) There is no soap calculator that I know that lists "moisturizing" as a quality. And "Condition" refers to the soap's emollient content that is left on the skin. Emollients, like glycerin, which is naturally occurring in soap help skin retain moisture, sooth and keep it soft. But it won't change your skin.

3) A well-made, balanced bar of soap doesn't need extra glycerin and would ultimately create problems and then you would be chasing your tail trying to solve it.

The simple fact is, the the Soap Qualities are a little misleading, but it is something that you learn as you go on.

I understand soap is a wash off product, but surely some of the oils stay on the skin. I've left the shower before still smelling like the scent of my soap. The only time I really need lotion is in the winter because of the forced air heart. Of course every skin is different, but I think soaps do leave behind oils (and detergent, in the case of some store bought soaps) and such which help keep the skin from drying out.

Yes and no. A lot of soap makers use what is called "Super Fat"...it refers to the amount oil not used up by Sodium Hydroxide. Part of the purpose of having an at least 1% SF is making double-sure that all the Lye is used up. The other part is that the left over oils can act as an emollient. Which brings us to that you can have too much of a good thing and can end up with a bar of soap that leaves you feeling greasy and/or sticky. The thing about SF in Cold Process soap making is that you don't get to choose which of your oils/butters is providing the SF. Now I know a couple of CP soap makers who 'add' SF to their batter after coming to emulsion or trace but it doesn't mean anything because the soap has not saponified so it just gets mixed in with all the rest of them. You can however choose your SF in Hot Process (after the batter has gelled at which point it's just hot soap) and Melt & Pour (always follow Mfg directions).

The ONLY soap that you want a high SF, around 20%, is a high coconut oil soap because it would otherwise be very drying.

 

[DeeAnna]

@TheGecko -- "...The ONLY soap that you want a high SF, around 20%, is a high coconut oil soap because it would otherwise be very drying...."

I'd think a person would feel the superfat on their skin after using a soap with 20% superfat. I can't say that I have ever perceived that, however, and I definitely don't with lower superfat amounts.

The only soap I've made that leaves a faint but perceptible film on my skin is when I include lanolin at 4%-5% of the total fat weight. I just add it to my usual high-lard recipe. Soap with lanolin is nice to use in wintertime, although it still doesn't eliminate the need for lotion if my skin is itchy and dry.

My guess is the superfat (using more normal types of fats than lanolin) has to be a fair bit higher than 20% to leave perceptible traces on the skin. There was a guy who posted briefly awhile back who was making soap with a huge amount of superfat. I figured his soap had about 50% superfat after I reverse-engineered the recipe. From the photos he shared, the soap left visibly greasy smears on the bather's skin.

 

[TheGecko]

There was a guy who posted briefly awhile back who was making soap with a huge amount of superfat. I figured his soap had about 50% superfat after I reverse-engineered the recipe. From the photos he shared, the soap left visibly greasy smears on the bather's skin.

Oh my gosh....ewwwwwwwwwwwww