AcornSky's Troubleshooting First Batch

[AcornSky]

Hi :wave:
I found the forum when using Google to troubleshoot my first ever batch of soap last week.

I'm learning fast. I now know that Witch Hazel is NOT a flower water, in spite of the websites that describe it as such, and it will not work as the water-based part of a CP soap recipe. I also know that when you mix ylang ylang, lavender, sandalwood and witch hazel you get something that smells remarkably like aniseed.

So my first batch of soap looks like scrambled egg and smells of aniseed.

How lovely... I'm just glad I made a very small quantity.

 

[Hazel]

Hello and welcome! :wave:

Did you use the alcohol free witch hazel?

 

[AcornSky]

It says it is distilled witch hazel, and gives an alternative name of Hamamelis Water but the website for the shop where I bought it also says it can't be bought by anyone over 16. If it contained alcohol I would have expected that to be 18.

Clearly, though, if the purchase is age restricted it isn't just a flower water! Strangely enough they didn't feel the need to check my age when I bought it...

 

[Hazel]

I don't know how it is in the UK but here witch hazel does have some alcohol in it. I have to search for ones which say alcohol free on the label and let me tell you, alcohol free is a lot more expensive than regular witch hazel. Did you check the ingredients?

I should state I've never used witch hazel for soap. I've only used it in lotions.

eta: There have been discussions about using witch hazel in soap which you can find in the CP section.

 

[AcornSky]

All it says for the ingredients is Distilled Witch Hazel. This is the product.

There must be something in it to justify the age restriction, and I think that must mean it contains alcohol. I'm surprised it doesn't say so on the label though - especially as it's from Boots.

 

[Hazel]

I checked the link and then googled Witch Hazel BPC. It does appear to be 100% Witch Hazel without any alcohol. That is odd that there is an age restriction for purchase. They probably didn't ask for proof of age when you bought it because you obviously look 18.

Well, if you can't use it in soap, it makes a wonderful additive in lotions. :grin:

 

[AcornSky]

Thank you!

I suppose I am just assuming it was the witch hazel that made the soap seize - the oils I used were all pure essential oils from a reliable source. I'll go and find the discussions about it that you mentioned.

The soap looks as though it is going to be usable - it's rather lumpy, but does look like soap, and the smell isn't bad, just not what I wanted!

 

[Hazel]

You're welcome! Please let me know what you think of the soap when you use it. It may be the witch hazel is what caused the seize. I don't know since I haven't used it. What EOs did you use and at what percentage? Spicy EOs can cause acceleration so I've been told. I had a EO/FO blend which has some spicy EOs in it and I soaped it at a cool temp so I didn't experience acceleration. Temp could have been a factor. Blending at a higher heat can cause rapid acceleration. I sadly know this from experience...several times 'cuz I get impatient.

Pomace olive oil moves fast. The second time I tried it, I ended with soap on a stick. (I had been lulled into a false state of confidence because it was well-behaved the first time I used it.) I didn't stop to think that the second time 1) I was using an FO which causes acceleration, 2) I used refined olive oil the last time I used the FO and 3) I blended that batch at room temperature. In my defense, I will admit to being a natural blonde before the gray took over.

This conversation is interesting and may be helpful to other people. Would you mind if I moved it to the CP forum as a separate topic? More people will see it there and it's possible someone will be able to give a definitive answer.

 

[AcornSky]

That sounds like a good idea - I had wondered whether I should start a new thread, but didn't want to lose the train of thought from here.

The oils in my recipe were 8oz pomace olive oil, 5oz coconut oil and 3oz palm oil, and the essential oils were ylang ylang, lavender and sandalwood - I can't remember the proportions, but I would think there were about 15-20 drops in total. I also added a tiny amount of grapefruit seed oil, which I now see can speed up the trace.

I was completely thrown because my books said the trace might take 20 minutes, and even though I was ready with my pre-measured EOs there wasn't time to pick up the jar and pour it into the moulds before it seized.

I can't remember what temperature I took it to - probably just enough to melt the oils. I've made some hand cream since then (very nice!) and the only temperature I can remember is the one from that (I'm also blonde... :lolno

 

[Hazel]

Yeah! Making a new thread worked!

I don't think the EOs sound like they'd be enough to be an issue but I haven't used ylang ylang except in an EO/FO blend and I've never used sandalwood EO. I'm wondering if it was the pomace.

I'll have to experiment and make a small batch with witch hazel.

 

[Seawolfe]

So my first batch of soap looks like scrambled egg and smells of aniseed.

How lovely... I'm just glad I made a very small quantity.

Thats awesome! Now watch - it will turn out to be your favoritist soap ever and you wont be able to replicate it

oh and welcome!

 

[AcornSky]

Hehe :mrgreen: - if I'd had the presence of mind I could have made something of the scrambled egg appearance. Sadly I just pushed it into the flower-shaped moulds that were sitting there waiting.

Am I right in thinking I could grate it, melt it and re-pour it? Would that work for a soap that went wrong at trace?

Another total beginner question. How quick do you normally have to be to pour the soap into the mould after trace and the addition of fragrance etc? I have visions of me trying to do it so quickly that it ends up all over the floor...

 

[Hazel]

Am I right in thinking I could grate it, melt it and re-pour it?

You can but it doesn't 'melt'. You'll just heat it until it gets kind of translucent, give it a good stir and then glop it into a mold. You could also grate it and add it into a new batch. I like making small colored batches to shred and chop to add flecks of color or embeds.

Another total beginner question. How quick do you normally have to be to pour the soap into the mould after trace and the addition of fragrance etc? I have visions of me trying to do it so quickly that it ends up all over the floor...

You don't have to do it quickly. If you're not working with colors for swirls, you can blend to medium or even thick trace. Even with working with colors, you don't have to hurry if you blend until you have a stable emulsion. Emulsified soap is right before light trace. I personally have a hard time seeing when the soap becomes emulsified - bad eyesight and bad kitchen lighting. I have to aim for really light trace and hope my batch doesn't thicken too quickly.

 

[AcornSky]

I'd hesitate to inflict this lot onto a nice shiny new batch of soap, but I really like the idea!

I might add some more fragrance to this batch - I'll have to have a good think about what might complement/mask the aniseed!

Then I'm going to make a new batch, hopefully putting to good use all that I've learned since the last one... :shifty: ... and maybe saving some to use as flecks in another future batch.

I'm also very glad to know that I don't need to watch with eagle eyes and react at the speed of light when I get a trace! Thank you.

 

[Susie]

Many of us add our EOs to the oils before adding the lye water. It keeps them from misbehaving when added at trace(such as seizing our soap). I learned this the hard way.

Yes, you can add more fragrance at the very end of rebatch. Be sure to check the flashpoint of your EO, and add it after the soap has cooled down to below that point.

Oh! And welcome to the addiction!

 

[AcornSky]

Thank you - I'm loving it! :mrgreen:

Am I right in thinking that if you add the EOs to the oil you don't need to worry about the flashpoint because the oils will have a higher flashpoint, and so the overall flashpoint will be plenty high enough?

 

[Hazel]

I might add some more fragrance to this batch - I'll have to have a good think about what might complement/mask the aniseed!

I just want to point out that just because you don't like the scent doesn't mean someone else won't love it. Different strokes for different folks. :grin:

Don't stress too much about flash point. Flash point is just the lowest temperature an oil can vaporize and become ignitable by a spark. (This means don't heat EOs, then stand over them and flick your Bic. ) Flash point is more important for suppliers to know for shipping. However, Susie made a good point about either adding EOs into the oils before blending or wait until after the soap has cooled a bit.

 

[AcornSky]

Well! I tried my scrambled egg and aniseed soap this morning. It's wonderful! I don't much like the scent, and it's extremely ugly, but it lathered beautifully and felt lovely, and where the soap has dissolved in use the bar is very nice and smooth.

Before you ask, no pictures... just imagine pale coloured scrambled egg pushed badly into a flower-shaped mould. I'm not saving that for posterity!

Thats awesome! Now watch - it will turn out to be your favoritist soap ever and you wont be able to replicate it

I'm going to have to dig out the recipe. I know I have it somewhere, but as you anticipated, I didn't save it because never in a million years did I think I would want it again.

 

[Susie]

Save every recipe. Always. Write notes on every one. Even if it is, "I hate this texture, lather, fragrance...NEVER AGAIN!"(Direct quote from one of mine.) You will learn from every one. Some you learn what goes right, some you learn what goes wrong. But you need to keep every last one.

 

[Hazel]

I second what Susie said about saving recipes. I tossed a recipe when I first started soapmaking because I thought it was horrible. It was so soft that I figured it wasn't a good blend of oils. I stuck the soap away and basically forgot about it. Five months later I decided I should at least start to use the soap since I didn't want to waste the oils and EOs. It had hardened; although it was still a little soft. I left an imprint when I pushed my finger into a bar. Anyway, it was wonderful as a facial soap for me. My sister loved it, too. I wrote about this back when it happened so I won't go into details. But I'm still upset about it because I couldn't remember everything I used for it after so many months. So, you may not like a soap after 4 or 6 weeks cure, but you may find a poor or mediocre soap becomes awesome after a longer than normal cure. I'm not saying my soap was awesome but it was pretty darn good for my skin.