A question on superfatting PROCESS

[rjalex]

Dear friends,
I am really enjoying soapmaking and again thank you all for your friendly support.

Until know all of my batches have been done with a 3% superfatting performed by adding all the oils into a mixing pot and then adding the appropriate amount of NaOH solution.

The question I have is if it would work also by making my calculations for a mixed oils 0% fat and then at trace add 3-5% of one single oil I want to be the sole non saponified one.

For example if I wanted the Jojoba oil in this way I should end up with a bar with the required hardness, cleansing, bubbles requirement plus some Jojoba to condition the skin.

Right or wrong ?

Thanks a lot

 

[Obsidian]

The only way you can choose which oil remains for the superfat is if you do HP and add it after the cook. When you CP and ad oil at trace, the lye is still active and it chooses which oils are saponified.

 

[tryanything]

What Obsidian said. Might I recommend using a higher super fat for safety? The general rule of thumb seems to be 5% for soaps used on your person (can be less for other applications). I prefer 7% but ultimately you need to do some trial and error to find what percent you like best.

 

[rjalex]

Awww darnola my chemistry exams are being defeated by your experience ! :-( This is an eye opener case in which I know I have to believe you because of your experience even though my personal knowledge told me otherwise
I feel pretty safe with my 3% SF. Because of my job I handle stuff that can kill in very small quantities and this made me very precise and paranoid

Thanks a lot.

 

[CaraBou]

Hmmm... makes we wonder what you do!

Love your photos, btw, they're stunning!

 

[DeeAnna]

Even though you might know how to measure and handle dangerous chemicals, do you do the testing necessary to absolutely KNOW the saponification values of the fats in your soap recipe? If you are not -- if you are instead using an average value as supplied by SoapCalc or other soap calculator ... you are playing the averages. The chance of making a lye-heavy soap will increase somewhat. One important reason for using a modest superfat is insurance for the times when the actual sap value is lower than the average.

 

[smeetree]

Damn, I've only been using 1-3% superfat because I thought any more would make my bar slick/oily. I hope I'm not burning my skin with lye!

 

[rjalex]

DeeAnna you are totally right. Wise considerations. Thanks. Next batch is going to be a 5-6% SF !!! CaraBou thanks for the kind words about my photographies. Alaska is definitely a place I'd adore traveling to and take away some nice photographs a a memory if and when kids, finances and my job (I am a medical doctor btw) will (ever ?) allow !!! BTW just seen the old "Alone in the Wilderness" documentary a few days ago

 

[DeeAnna]

"...I hope I'm not burning my skin with lye!..."

You'd know it if you were. It's unmistakable. Itchy, prickly skin immediately after bathing is a clue. Redness and burning would be an even worse case.

Like I said before, we don't have an accurate handle on the properties of the ingredients we're working with, so every time we make soap we're making assumptions about those properties. You might go a long time before making a lye-heavy soap if you use 1-3% superfat, but the probability is certainly higher than if you err on the side of at least 5% superfat.

Even a superfat of 20% is not going to leave your skin greasy ... I've tried it just to find out what it's like. I'm not a fan of high amounts of superfat, however, I would rather design the recipe itself to be mild rather than expect unreacted fat to provide conditioning and mildness. I use 5% superfat as insurance against the uncontrollable error inherent in making soap -- small measuring errors, variability in the actual saponification value of the fats, variability in my lye, etc.

 

[CaraBou]

CaraBou thanks for the kind words about my photographies. Alaska is definitely a place I'd adore traveling to and take away some nice photographs a a memory if and when kids, finances and my job (I am a medical doctor btw) will (ever ?) allow !!! BTW just seen the old "Alone in the Wilderness" documentary a few days ago

Dr. rjalex, I spent 2 weeks one fall looking after the Proenneke cabin. My husband works for the national park (Lake Clark) that Dick willed his cabin to, and we volunteered to cover for the regular/seasonal site hosts who had to depart early. It was an amazing experience, with an average of less than one small floatplane of visitors per day to greet during our stay. It is still beautiful wilderness. We stayed in "Spike's cabin," which is where Dick stayed when he was building his own. Sorry for diverting the conversation, but I'm posting a few pics that may bring memories of the film. Sorry, I don't have a good one of the famous split door, so I included all that I have (visitors from Germany). You MUST visit it if you ever come to Alaska. It is hard (and expensive) to get to, but well worth it if you were inspired by the film.

For those who are curious but have no idea what we're talking about, here are a couple links:
http://aloneinthewilderness.com/building_the_cabin.html
http://www.nps.gov/lacl/historyculture/richard-l-proenneke.htm

 

[judymoody]

Beautiful country!

 

[smeetree]

Dr. rjalex, I spent 2 weeks one fall looking after the Proenneke cabin. My husband works for the national park http://www.nps.gov/lacl/historyculture/richard-l-proenneke.htm

That's awesome.
I'm a wildlife biologist and spent some time in Alaska. Need to get back!

 

[CaraBou]

That's awesome.
I'm a wildlife biologist and spent some time in Alaska. Need to get back!

That's my profession too, smeetree! Who knew there were other soapers??

rjalex, my apologies again for hijacking the post to a completely non-soaping topic. I'll shut up now

 

[rjalex]

Dr. rjalex, I spent 2 weeks one fall looking after the Proenneke cabin. My husband works for the national park (Lake Clark) that Dick willed his cabin to, and we volunteered to cover for the regular/seasonal site hosts who had to depart early.

OMG !!! I feel I just got in touch with LEGEND !!! There's a part of me that would dream about living like Dick, even though my social/talkative side would disagree OK now I officially have a new dream !

Thanks a LOT for sharing those splendid info and pics and I apologize to the other members for this fantastinc off-topic.

PS I do have a knack for documentaries. Another great one on Alaska is around the very controversial Timothy Treadwell and his rapport with Grizzlies http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427312/ Jaw dropping for both the story and the polarization of comments split between "He was a nut/He was a saint" camps. The comment I liked more is made from a native that very sensibly says "We live here, they live there, mingling is courting disaster"