100% Coconut oil liquid soap query

[Wild Vegan]

Hi All,

I have been making soap for about a year now and making dish wash and laundry soap out of it. I turned towards HP when I realised I didn't have patience to wait for soap to cure for weeks. I have made Coconut oil liquid soap on stove top in the past and have always got clear soap a day later.

This is the first time I used a crock pot and I used purified drinking water instead of distilled water (again same as last time) but this time, after dilution of 3:1, soap is milky. It feels good to use and cleans well. Just wanted to hear from the experts if it is safe to use since I have about 3 litres of soap now.

Note: even after gel phase, soap zapped. When I tested on pH strips, it was about 9 and to reduce the zap, I mixed in citric acid while dilution. About 14 grams for 576 grams of soap paste in gel state.

I left the soap on warm overnight after 12 hours of cooking hoping the zap goes away.

Is it possible my Koh is too strong?

I'm just wracking my brain from yesterday wondering where I went wrong.

Any pointers will be helpful.

Thanks in advance

 

[shunt2011]

The cloudiness is probably due to the lye being neutralized too much with the Citric Acid and have a higher SF. Soap will naturally be 9-12 ph. PH strips are not an accurate measure. I would have cooked it until zap free or just turned the paste off and let it sit overnight.

 

[gloopygloop]

I totally agree with shunt2011, it sounds over neutralised. You can add back KoH diluted little by little until the soap clears then test it. I also agree its best to just wait until soap does become zap free, if it doesn't then its likely to be a miscalculation.

 

[DeeAnna]

"....I used purified drinking water instead of distilled water..."

And that's another issue. If you use water that has dissolved minerals to make and/or dilute the soap -- which is the case with drinking water -- it's very likely the finished soap will not be clear.

Sodium and potassium soaps react with "hard water" minerals (calcium and magnesium) to form calcium and magnesium soaps. These soaps are insoluble and give the product a milky look. If this is the case, the soap won't ever be clear.

"...When I tested on pH strips, it was about 9 and to reduce the zap..."

Did you also do a zap test, then? pH test strips aren't accurate. Even if they were, a pH test alone is not definitive proof whether the soap has excess alkali or not. Either do an excess alkalinity titration or do a zap test to know that for sure.

 

[Wild Vegan]

The cloudiness is probably due to the lye being neutralized too much with the Citric Acid and have a higher SF. Soap will naturally be 9-12 ph. PH strips are not an accurate measure. I would have cooked it until zap free or just turned the paste off and let it sit overnight.

I cooked on low for 12 hours and left it on warm overnight. Still zapped although very slightly

I totally agree with shunt2011, it sounds over neutralised. You can add back KoH diluted little by little until the soap clears then test it. I also agree its best to just wait until soap does become zap free, if it doesn't then its likely to be a miscalculation.

This is a brilliant idea, I'll try it for a small quantity first. Also, running out of space in the pot

"....I used purified drinking water instead of distilled water..."

And that's another issue. If you use water that has dissolved minerals to make and/or dilute the soap -- which is the case with drinking water -- it's very likely the finished soap will not be clear.

Sodium and potassium soaps react with "hard water" minerals (calcium and magnesium) to form calcium and magnesium soaps. These soaps are insoluble and give the product a milky look. If this is the case, the soap won't ever be clear.

"...When I tested on pH strips, it was about 9 and to reduce the zap..."

Did you also do a zap test, then? pH test strips aren't accurate. Even if they were, a pH test alone is not definitive proof whether the soap has excess alkali or not. Either do an excess alkalinity titration or do a zap test to know that for sure.

I did a zap test and this is pretty much the first time my soap has ever zapped. Is there even a very slight possibility that I'm too sensitive and my zap test is faulty?

Also, since it feels soapy enough for cleaning and dish wash (note: washing dishes by hand), what is the downside to using it as is?

Really appreciate your help, thank you

 

[DeeAnna]

Sometimes people mistake a bad taste for a zap, and a high coconut oil soap can taste bad. If you find yourself wondering "is it or isn't it" the sensation is probably not a zap. If the sensation is immediate like a static shock, it's very likely a zap.

Downside to using a lye heavy soap? It can be irritating to the skin. Your hands will feel dry and tight and may get rough and flaky, even if you don't have sensitive skin in general.

 

[Wild Vegan]

Sometimes people mistake a bad taste for a zap, and a high coconut oil soap can taste bad. If you find yourself wondering "is it or isn't it" the sensation is probably not a zap. If the sensation is immediate like a static shock, it's very likely a zap.

Downside to using a lye heavy soap? It can be irritating to the skin. Your hands will feel dry and tight and may get rough and flaky, even if you don't have sensitive skin in general.

One little update from just now: I let the soap sit untouched for 24 hours and whatever I thought was zap has reduced by about 50%

Since this soap is milky and over-neutralized apparently, I was asking the downside of using it as is - milky cloudy et al ... Definitely feels good on skin, no irritation and no dryness after use and I have super sensitive skin. Okay, I'll shamelessly admit I'm looking for some validation to use the soap as is ...

 

[DeeAnna]

Oh, I missed the context of your question about using the soap as-is. Yes, it's perfectly safe to use if over neutralized. You can superfat with fat or with fatty acids. The soap might not clean dishes quite as squeaky clean, but it will be nice on the skin.

 

[Wild Vegan]

Oh, I missed the context of your question about using the soap as-is. Yes, it's perfectly safe to use if over neutralized. You can superfat with fat or with fatty acids. The soap might not clean dishes quite as squeaky clean, but it will be nice on the skin.

Thank you .... I mixed xanthan gum and baking soda with the soap and turned some into dishwash liquid and EWax and lemongrass oil and water with soap and made some floor cleaner. Both worked pretty well today and is soft on hands too.

I have stored some to repair with diluted koh to understand where I went wrong

 

[Susie]

1. Are you using a lye calculator to figure out how much KOH?
2. Where did your KOH come from?
3. Are you verifying your scale before weighing?
4. Zap does not "reduce by 50%". It either is or is not.

 

[Wild Vegan]

1. Are you using a lye calculator to figure out how much KOH?
2. Where did your KOH come from?
3. Are you verifying your scale before weighing?
4. Zap does not "reduce by 50%". It either is or is not.

Hi Susie,

Ran the recipe through soapcalc.net and it's the same recipe that has worked in the past

Same Koh also, from a local supplier. Same scale, only difference is that I used to make soap stove top and this time I got a new crock pot, so I doubled the quantity of everything.

Maybe I am not getting the zap test right or misreading it. When I touch the soap to the tip of my tongue, it makes my tongue really sensitive, doesn't feel like just soap.

 

[shunt2011]

Hi Susie,

Ran the recipe through soapcalc.net and it's the same recipe that has worked in the past

Same Koh also, from a local supplier. Same scale, only difference is that I used to make soap stove top and this time I got a new crock pot, so I doubled the quantity of everything.

Maybe I am not getting the zap test right or misreading it. When I touch the soap to the tip of my tongue, it makes my tongue really sensitive, doesn't feel like just soap.

Did you run the doubled recipe through the calculator? Or just double your regular recipe? That could be part of the problem. Also, you weren't zapped if it just makes your tongue sensitive. You will know if you've been zapped. It's like the charge from a 9V battery.

 

[earlene]

Proper performance of zap test: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/how-to-properly-safely-conduct-the-zap-tongue-test.63199/

Placing the bar of soap on your tongue is not how it's done.