Cornstarch attracts bacteria?

agirlhasnoname · Sep 19, 2017

So I just used cornstarch to anchor my orange EO in cold process soap. And stumbled upon this today. "Do not add cornstarch to soap. Cornstarch canl eave a thin film on your skin that might attract bacteria. Do not put in your soap any ingredients that might be poisonous.Poisons can be absorbed through the skin."

What's gonna happen? I've made a huge batch for my brother who loves citrus scents. I'd feel guilty giving it to him now.

Kittish · Sep 19, 2017

First of all, where'd you find that information? Not everything you find on the internet is true...

The whole 'attract bacteria' bit sounds suspiciously like it comes from someone who also believes that vaccines cause autism. Cornstarch is widely used in cosmetic products, food, and lots of other places.

I'd let the soap cure and try a bar. At worst, you have 'meh' soap.

Millie · Sep 19, 2017

I don't see any reason to avoid cornstarch. Skip the poison though

agirlhasnoname · Sep 19, 2017

I know I know! Just that these EOs cost a bomb and (http://www.hanthorn.com/recipeinfo/soap.htm) was amongst the top search results, I realized like I should have read up more before making it. Well I definitely feel very silly now.

Millie · Sep 19, 2017

Oh, don't feel silly, it's always better to ask. I have asked loads of Qs that might seem silly, but it's better to be safe than chicken. I've learned a ton that way. The great thing about a forum is that if one of our answers is wrong, another person can come along and educate us all. Welcome to SMF!

Just to be sure, did you weigh your ingredients and use a lye calculator? I didn't read through the whole article but it seemed like it might have been written by a person who did some research but never made soap. There is great info in sticky posts in the beginner and lye-based sections. Ask about anything you're not sure of. No question is too silly

cmzaha · Sep 19, 2017

agirlhasnoname said:
I know I know! Just that these EOs cost a bomb and (http://www.hanthorn.com/recipeinfo/soap.htm) was amongst the top search results, I realized like I should have read up more before making it. Well I definitely feel very silly now.

Please do not follow the instructions in the above link. There is a Lot of mis-information especially using metal as molds. Even a well cooked hp soap I would not trust in metal pans

Susie · Sep 19, 2017

That article is a perfect example of why you don't trust everything you read on the internet. Good thing you have us to help you not believe it! But don't feel bad, we were all new once. I would have believed it also, before I found good information and good people to ask questions of. None of us were born knowing all there was to know about making soap.

lsg · Sep 19, 2017

I agree with the other members. It is always good to double check information from the internet and e-books.

BrewerGeorge · Sep 19, 2017

Kittish said:
First of all, where'd you find that information? Not everything you find on the internet is true...

The whole 'attract bacteria' bit sounds suspiciously like it comes from someone who also believes that vaccines cause autism. Cornstarch is widely used in cosmetic products, food, and lots of other places.
....

LOL, that's exactly the feeling I got from the quote, too.

toxikon · Sep 19, 2017

Woooow that webpage is awful. I've never seen so much terrible information on one page. I wish there was a way to take it down so new soapmakers wouldn't be able to see that crap anymore.

Stick around this forum, OP, and you'll find a wealth of amazing information from experienced soapers.

SoapTrey · Sep 19, 2017

How much Cornstarch did you add? Adding CS is a perfectly acceptable way to anchor scents. Your soap is perfectly OK with CS, don't feel guilty...

Starch Powders
Starch powders such as cornstarch and arrowroot powder are also used as a fragrance fixative in cold process soap. These powders work the same way as clays by absorbing the scent and helping the scent last longer in soap. To use, mix your fragrance with the powder and then add to traced soap. We recommend ¼ to ½ tsp. of starch powder per pound of oils (PPO).

From modernsoapmaking.com "some soapmakers choose to add fixatives to their formulas to help anchor essential oils in soapmaking. Some of the common recommendations I’ve seen are mixing the essential oils into a small amount of arrowroot, cornstarch, clays, benzoin, oatmeal, or orris root powder. I do not recommend using benzoin or orris root as both are skin sensitizers and have potential to induce allergic reactions. If you choose to use either, please label your soap accordingly."

lenarenee · Sep 19, 2017

When it comes to food, starchy foods like pasta develop bacteria and other things faster than many other types of food - even cooked meat. We childcare providers are instructed that leftover pasta is to be thrown out by day 3, whereas many properly stored cooked meats have a cut off of 5 days. (this info it applied to kids over age 5, infants and toddler have a different standard, your state regs may vary)

With the gluten free pasta often made with cornstarch, rice, etc.; the same standard applied.

Maybe this person was thinking along those lines - that starches grow bacteria faster (carbohydrates are just long chains of glucose molecules, and bacteria love glucose)

Kittish · Sep 19, 2017

Maybe, lenarenee, but those standards don't exactly translate. For one thing, soap is a massively unfriendly environment to bacteria. Very little to no water most of the time, and even fully cured soap is a strongly alkaline environment. This is the reason that adding things like sugar and fruit and vegetable puree to soap doesn't cause more problems- even WITH a food source, the environment of bar soap just isn't hospitable enough under most circumstances.

lenarenee · Sep 19, 2017

Kittish said:
Maybe, lenarenee, but those standards don't exactly translate. For one thing, soap is a massively unfriendly environment to bacteria. Very little to no water most of the time, and even fully cured soap is a strongly alkaline environment. This is the reason that adding things like sugar and fruit and vegetable puree to soap doesn't cause more problems- even WITH a food source, the environment of bar soap just isn't hospitable enough under most circumstances.

They weren't intended to translate to soap. I was simply explaining a possible reason for their thinking. Many people make generalizations.

There is a caveat to your statement about food additives not causing trouble in soap. The alkalinity of handmade soap shouldn't be used as a guarantee of safety in preventing bacterial, mold, etc. Sensible precautions should still stand. High portions of food are absolutely able to cause problems such as mold and other problems. These amounts often, but not always, cause soap failure in the first place.

There are also bacteria know as obligate alkaliphiles that enjoy high pH, but I have no other knowledge than that.

Kittish · Sep 19, 2017

Very true about people making generalizations.

I had exactly that caveat in mind when I said "doesn't cause more problems" with food additives. Use some common sense and don't dump too much in there.

I had no idea about that class? family? grouping of organisms. I wonder if any of them are pathogenic? If they're harmless to humans, then they sort of don't count for the discussion, though it's interesting to know they exist. Another reminder of how adaptable and tenacious life is (honestly, I'll be surprised if we DON'T find life elsewhere in even our own solar system, never mind the rest of the galaxy- but I'm not holding out for similar intelligence levels). Same with harmless bacteria. It's only the pathogens we notice most of the time. Thanks for showing me a new rabbit hole to wander into.

ETA: OMG I followed the link the OP found and... I couldn't even get through the whole thing. That is horrid. Metal pans to pour soap batter into and no mention to at least make sure it's not aluminum? Use food colors for bright colors in your soap? A large wooden spoon as recommended equipment for mixing lye and stirring soap? No mention of a scale at all, the writer seems to think that volume measurements are acceptable for making soap.

And this!

Most soaps made at home will need to be improved before they are
suitable for personal use. To improve soap, you might wish to
remelt it and add more fats and oils.

Dunno about you guys, but I'd much rather just make the soap properly the first time around.

lenarenee · Sep 19, 2017

Kittish said:
Very true about people making generalizations.

I had exactly that caveat in mind when I said "doesn't cause more problems" with food additives. Use some common sense and don't dump too much in there.

I had no idea about that class? family? grouping of organisms. I wonder if any of them are pathogenic? If they're harmless to humans, then they sort of don't count for the discussion, though it's interesting to know they exist. Another reminder of how adaptable and tenacious life is (honestly, I'll be surprised if we DON'T find life elsewhere in even our own solar system, never mind the rest of the galaxy- but I'm not holding out for similar intelligence levels). Same with harmless bacteria. It's only the pathogens we notice most of the time. Thanks for showing me a new rabbit hole to wander into.

Have fun wandering down that rabbit hole - and let us know what you find.
That little tidbit was a lab activity from a bio class a couple years ago. I couldn't begin to name the bacteria in from that class. I just squirrelled it away in my mind to know that handmade soap's alkalinity can't be 100% guaranteed to kill bacteria.

There's also bacteria that can grow in salt water.

Kittish · Sep 19, 2017

lenarenee said:
There's also bacteria that can grow in salt water.

Especially around hydro thermal vents on the ocean floor.

And in ice. Probably at least one species of bacteria that can grow in ANY sort of terrestrial conditions to be found, except maybe, possibly, in molten lava. And even that I don't think I'd bet very much money against- we keep finding extremophiles living happily in places we didn't think anything COULD.

Steve85569 · Sep 19, 2017

I will now have to start avoiding putting poison into my soap ( I dang near laughed out loud).

Using the logic about corn starch - would any super fat also be suspect?

Really now. There are safe usage standards for so many things just to protect us from the worst case scenario. I'm not even sure how much of the starch or corn would survive the lye. Probably would depend on the level of SF in the batch.

This one just hit some kind of nerve with me.
Sorry for the rant.
Steve

lenarenee · Sep 19, 2017

Steve85569 said:
I will now have to start avoiding putting poison into my soap ( I dang near laughed out loud).

Using the logic about corn starch - would any super fat also be suspect?

Really now. There are safe usage standards for so many things just to protect us from the worst case scenario. I'm not even sure how much of the starch or corn would survive the lye. Probably would depend on the level of SF in the batch.

This one just hit some kind of nerve with me.
Sorry for the rant.
Steve

Didn't sound like much of a rant Steve, just common sense.

As for cornstarch surviving the lye - it brings up a good question - what does survive lye? We seem to operate on the basis that lye destroys almost everything, but it doesn't. It messes with eo's and essential oils, but doesn't completely "destroy" them, or 2 and 5 plastics. Wonder if Kevin Dunn has ever created a list of things not altered by lye?

...and I'm not doing a very good job of studying for my anatomy practical so I'm going to have to ban anything soap for a while.

Cornstarch attracts bacteria?

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