Coconut allergy, with eczema, help me formulate?

Catastrophe · Dec 20, 2016

A friend's son is deathly allergic to coconut (and mustard, of all things), and he has eczema. She's asked me to make him a soap without coconut to see if that's what's causing/aggravating the eczema.

I want to make a few different soaps for him. One will be a straight olive castile, but obviously that has a long cure time.

I also want to do a pine tar bar for him, and then a regular soap. Both without coconut. I do have PKO, but I'm not sure what oils might be related to coconut, could you guys help me out?

I was thinking a lard, olive, avocado, castor? Maybe with PKO to boost the lather?

I'm going to HP the plain soap, I realize that doesn't negate cure time, but he needs something soon, so he can start using one bar while the rest cures.

We're going to go with unscented. Would appreciate any input of oils/butters to avoid. I have cocoa, mango, and shea available in butters, if those would be beneficial.

earlene · Dec 20, 2016

Avoid walnut and hazelnut oils, which you didn't list, but just to be on the safe side. That's if his allergy is eating related, because the proteins are similar, but I have no idea if external contact with the oils would be linked.

The Australasian Society of Clinical Immunology and Allergy states that contact dermatitis is more common than a food allergy with coconut and warns that

Coconut-derived products (such as coconut diethanolamide, cocamide sulphate, cocamide DEA, CDEA) can cause contact allergic dermatitis, present in cosmetics including some hair shampoos, moisturisers, soaps, cleansers and hand washing liquids. As with any contact dermatitis, an itchy blistering rash may arise a day or two after contact with the allergen, and take several days to resolve. If contact dermatitis to coconut products is suspected, then patch testing is an appropriate method for diagnosis.

There is also a list of coconut derivatives to watch out for in products, which you can read here.

On another note, avocado and shea are both linked to latex and if he has had any extensive exposure to medical personnel wearing latex gloves, I would suggest avoiding those as well. Again, just to be on the safe side. Now-a-days a lot of medical personnel don't wear latex gloves anymore, but sometimes they will only wear non-latex when requested. (I found out the hard way at my dentist's office after my face & neck turned red and blotchy.)

Arimara · Dec 20, 2016

I agree about the walnut and hazelnut oils. PKO makes a fine bubbly soap but I have only used the hydrogenated flakes, which I suggest you may consider only because of how refined it is.

lsg · Dec 20, 2016

One of my great nephews has serious eczema problems. His mom tried many medications, but hit on Benadryl, the antihistamine, to help relieve the itching and scratching.
http://www.besthealthmag.ca/best-you/health/3-ways-to-soothe-eczema/

Susie · Dec 20, 2016

I would make something like this:

Lard 75%
Olive Oil 20%
Castor Oil 5%

Superfat 5%
NaOH 95%
KOH 5%
Sugar 1 tablespoon PPO

The KOH boosts that lather a lot. As does the sugar.

Obsidian · Dec 21, 2016

I like susies recipe, simple ingredients that will be gentle without having to wait on a super long cure.

fuzz-juzz · Dec 21, 2016

Shea and avocado have some proteins same as latex. You can be allergic to latex without being allergic to shea, etc.
List is quite extensive, it includes bananas, etc.
I react to latex but I'm fine with everything else, I use shea in soaps without issues. I'm still sporting blisters from ECG stickers, it's been a week. It's so easy to forget to mention, and medical people often forget to ask.
I've recently started reacting to strawberries, but my immunity is so out of whack, no Dr is sure what's happening anymore.

So, I'm getting to the point that it might be better for your's friends son to be properly tested. You can play around with the ingredient, but if he's sensitive to one, he is probably sensitive to many more.
If he's highly allergic to coconut, I would be scared to play around with nut butters and oils.
Rice bran oil is nice, if you can find any. Also lard and tallow are quite safe.
I make facial bars without coconut oil, I've played around with lard, tallow, OO, shea, castor etc and they work out fine and lather nicely.

Catastrophe · Dec 21, 2016

I know he's had extensive allergy testing, not sure about how they test for contact allergies, but he's had the scratch testing on his back. Coconut, sesame, mustard, and fish are his only known allergies and he is anaphylactic to all of them.

I did some searching and it didn't occur to me until then that coconuts grow on palm trees. Apparently coconuts are classified as drupes, along with the palms that palm oil (and I assume PKO) are made from. Also mango and almond fall into the same family, so I'll avoid those, as well. Anyway, I don't want to use PKO now.

Susie's recipe looks great, I'll try that, but I don't have any KOH so I'll have to just use NaOH.

Thank you all for the thoughts and suggestions!!! I told Mom I'll also make a salve, I have some EVOO I infused with healing herbs last week and will use that in it. Told her to maybe put that on at night and put gloves on, and maybe we can clear up his poor little hands. She said they are the worst

cmzaha · Dec 21, 2016

Catastrophe said:
I know he's had extensive allergy testing, not sure about how they test for contact allergies, but he's had the scratch testing on his back. Coconut, sesame, mustard, and fish are his only known allergies and he is anaphylactic to all of them.

I did some searching and it didn't occur to me until then that coconuts grow on palm trees. Apparently coconuts are classified as drupes, along with the palms that palm oil (and I assume PKO) are made from. Also mango and almond fall into the same family, so I'll avoid those, as well. Anyway, I don't want to use PKO now.

Susie's recipe looks great, I'll try that, but I don't have any KOH so I'll have to just use NaOH.

Thank you all for the thoughts and suggestions!!! I told Mom I'll also make a salve, I have some EVOO I infused with healing herbs last week and will use that in it. Told her to maybe put that on at night and put gloves on, and maybe we can clear up his poor little hands. She said they are the worst

Please tell her to test on a very small area. Herbs are not always healing and can be high allergens like anything else, plus allergies can literally change overnight. I for one, do better with synthetic fo's rather than EO's. Some eczema can also worsen with salves because they keep the skin to moist which makes it easily torn when scratching. My dermatologist could never believe I cannot use ointments because I would scratch them off and tear up my skin more. Pine Tar can cause severe allergic reactions. I simply would not make anything for someone's child with severe allergies. There are some wonderful prescription ointments and creams available now and many times it takes old fashioned medicine. I assume they have him under medical care since he has had testing.

I am one that has severe allergies, landing in the hospital more than once with anaphylactic shock. If you are determined to make a soap for him I would go with 100% lard, or 50/50 lard/tallow. No color, fragrance or Eo's or herbal infusions

Susie · Dec 21, 2016

I, too, would avoid the salve. I would not suggest anything that the doctor does not approve. If that child has a reaction to the salve, YOU would be at fault (perhaps legally liable) for suggesting they use something "healing". Remember that the FDA frowns on products touted as anything labelled as healing without it going through approved testing. Is this a risk you are willing to take?

dixiedragon · Dec 21, 2016

I would start with a 100% lard bar with nothing added. For some people, simple is better.

penelopejane · Dec 21, 2016

Catastrophe said:
I know he's had extensive allergy testing, not sure about how they test for contact allergies, but he's had the scratch testing on his back. Coconut, sesame, mustard, and fish are his only known allergies and he is anaphylactic to all of them.

I did some searching and it didn't occur to me until then that coconuts grow on palm trees. Apparently coconuts are classified as drupes, along with the palms that palm oil (and I assume PKO) are made from. Also mango and almond fall into the same family, so I'll avoid those, as well. Anyway, I don't want to use PKO now.

Thank you all for the thoughts and suggestions!!! I told Mom I'll also make a salve, I have some EVOO I infused with healing herbs last week and will use that in it.

I am allergic to coconut and mustard, sesame, palm oil, Pko and most herbs.
Do not put oil infused herbs in anything for an allergy sufferer. Don't use EO or FOs.

Lard and tallow generally have preservatives so that should not be used for allergy sufferers.

Millie · Dec 21, 2016

Disrupting the skin's pH could exascerbate his eczema, so soap could make it worse. Just have them ask his doctor first before making any special products. I have a friend who has been hospitalized a few times with severe eczema. If you find a solution please let us know

redhead1226 · Jan 5, 2017

Susie - How would I calculate the water for dual lye? I have never done this before. But Id like to try it for my mom who may benefit from this recipe. Thanks!!

cmzaha · Jan 5, 2017

I grew up using Ceptaphil lotion versus soap and syndet bars. My docs always told me no Soap.

Any product for a person with such severe allergies need to be doctor approved. Allergies can change from one day to another. I do use my soap now but not for all body areas

LilyJo · Jan 5, 2017

My son was anaphalactic as well and from experience I would say dont use anything that hasnt been tested and approved - its such a scary thing to go through that I just wouldnt take the risk at all.

Years ago my son's skin improved using L'Occitane almond oil soap (yeah I know, it was before I knew about soap!) but then overnight he had a massive reaction to it; we were advised to use plan water or medicated washes as an allergic reaction can be caused by a built of reactions so what is fine today can cause anaphalactic shock tomorrow.

earlene · Jan 5, 2017

redhead1226 said:
Susie - How would I calculate the water for dual lye? I have never done this before. But Id like to try it for my mom who may benefit from this recipe. Thanks!!

Not Suzie, but here's what I do for dual lye recipes. I use soapee.com which is a lye calculator that accomodates soap made with both NaOH & KOH. You enter the percentage of each and it does the calculations for you.

Susie · Jan 5, 2017

earlene said:
Not Suzie, but here's what I do for dual lye recipes. I use soapee.com which is a lye calculator that accomodates soap made with both NaOH & KOH. You enter the percentage of each and it does the calculations for you.

I use Soapee.com, also. Just click the hybrid soap option and fill in how much KOH and it will tell you how much of each lye and how much water to use.

redhead1226 · Jan 5, 2017

Thank you girls! That was easy enough!

Catastrophe · Jan 6, 2017

Just wanted to post an update, sorry for the delay, between company for the holidays and illness, I haven't had much time to get on the computer.

I made him the lard/OO/castor recipe Susie posted, HP'd, no KOH or scent/color. Also made a 1lb batch of castile, but I haven't given that to mom yet.

I didn't know when I posted before, but mom got the idea for CO-free soap from the allergist. Apparently he's a bit of a "crunchy" guy and also likes trying alternative stuff, but mom didn't know anyone to make soap until it came up in conversation with me a few weeks back.

I did NOT make him a salve, and I didn't use any herbs/infusions in the soap. Mom told me last night his hands are MUCH better now, they aren't cracked or itching and she said that is unheard of this time of year. I think I took her the soap on Dec. 23rd.

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and guidance about oils to avoid for this. I've tried to write my thoughts several times about allergies in general, but they sound argumentative and that isn't what I intend, so....I'll just say I really appreciate everyone sharing their perspective and experiences, it all was very useful and helped me make a decision I was comfortable with.

Coconut allergy, with eczema, help me formulate?

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