My goats milk soap is too soft

jennyannlowe · Apr 27, 2016

My goats milk soap is great, but too soft and melting too fast. I took some sample bars to work and gave them away to my friends. Im not ready to sell anything yet. Still working on recipes. So, I gave away soap for feedback. And I'm getting positive reviews on my oatmeal honey goats milk soap and I want to work on making a harder bar. This recipe I am almost satisfied with. Can you take a look? FYI, at the bottom is a hand written note that says 2/3 goat milk and 1/3 coconut milk.

I am using sodium lactate at 2% of oil weight. Should I try adding tsp of salt PPO?*
I dont want to tweak it too much because it lathers and bubbles great.*
How about beeswax at 1%?
Or swapping some cocoa butter for some of the shea?
Or change the SF to 5%?
I have already decided to omit the jojoba oil due to the cost. Maybe changing the SF to 5% and leaving out the Jojoba and increasing the tallow in its place?
what should I try first?

thank you in advance!

snappyllama · Apr 27, 2016

How long are you curing it? That recipe looks fine, but I'd give it at least 6-8 weeks with 45% soft oils. If you're omitting the jojoba, try putting it into tallow.

Obsidian · Apr 27, 2016

I would drop the jojoba and lower the OO to 20%, make up the difference with tallow. How are you storing your soap in the shower? Is it in a wire rack so it can completely dry between uses? If its staying wet, nothing will help it last longer.

Arimara · Apr 27, 2016

I agree with obsidian. 30% tallow + the 25% coconut oil should give you a fairly harder soap more immediately. Also, unless you like the super fat, you probably could drop it a bit but I would not drop it below 4% to be nice (5% SF makes me feel a little better.)

KristaY · Apr 28, 2016

The SF is set at 7% but it's probably more like 10-12% depending on how much fat is in the milk portions. I'd suggest doing the math to see how much extra fat you're adding then decide on where to set the SF. When I make OMH I set the SF at 1% because the CM fats increase the SF to 4%.

penelopejane · Apr 28, 2016

For some reason the forum isn't allowing me to see photos or attachments lately so I can't see your recipe.

I know tallow and lard are popular on this forum and if you like them use them but it is not necessary to use them to make a hard soap. I don't use SL. All of my oils are soft except 10% shea butter. It makes a fairly hard bar (but not as hard as 30% palm, 30% CC and 30% OO). To make my soap harder I use 1 tsp salt ppo dissolved into the water.

I cure my soap for at least 10 weeks some a lot longer. By that I mean I don't use them before 10 weeks and I don't give them away until I have tested them myself first. This might not suit you.

Whether I use GM or not it makes no difference to the hardness of the soap. I use a low SF though.

jennyannlowe · Apr 28, 2016

Thanks everyone for the advice.

How do I calculate the extra superfat of milk?

Also, i really struggle with trying to pour before the soap seizes. Either the soap is too soft or I modify the recipe to make it harder and I end up with peanut butter trying to scrape it out of the bowl.

I'm feeling a little discouraged. My last 2 batches seized.

Has anyone used Cucumber and fresh mint fragrance oil from WSP? Does it accerlate trace?

I admit I didn't do my home work on it. But even besides that, with fragrances that behave well, I struggle with getting a hard bar without having soap that seizes.

Question....normally I would add my some additives to my water before lye and the rest at trace.
But then I tried adding some to the water and the rest to the oils so I could stick blend it good then add the lye water very last thing. It seemed to work better for me. Is there a lot of difference between adding additives at trace or to the oils? Or does it depend on the ingredient?

Hmmmm..... I guess I'm mostly venting. I'll try again tonight after work.

Also I admit....I have to try to not over stick blend after lye water is added.

I won't give up! I've had more success than failure....but lately I've been on a bad luck streak.

Well thanks y'all

The Efficacious Gentleman · Apr 28, 2016

If your addition at trace is cold it could be more of a solidifying problem. What is it that you are adding at trace?

KristaY · Apr 28, 2016

Here's my thread link asking for help to calculate the fat in CM. The same will apply to any milk by using the label's nutrition info to guide you. Hope this helps!

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=51437

snappyllama · Apr 28, 2016

Another suggestion... put in your additives into your oils before your lye goes in. That way you can incorporate the additives fully, bring them up to same temperature and don't risk overblending to a thicker trace than you want.

I also like to put in my FO into the oils. I think diluting it there buys me more time with misbehaving FOs.

ETA: my colors are premixed with oil or glycerin+water. That makes it fast to respond to misbehaving FOs, and I can just stir colors into my batter.

cmzaha · Apr 28, 2016

One of my favorite rock hard soaps formulas, which is not highly soluble, is 43% tallow, 25% lard, under 20% coconut, 4% castor with your choice of soft oils for the balance. Superfat 2-4% depending on your coconut oil percentage. This will give you a rock hard soap, but not a lot of working time. If swirling use no higher than a 33% lye concentration and bring just to emulsion. Using olive oil for the balance of soft oils will help slow the trace some. You do not need to worry about the extra fat from the milks with the lower superfat. I usually use sugar to up the bubbles

Susie · Apr 28, 2016

Jenny, did you ever make the simple 3-4 oil recipes, then change one thing at the time process? I was looking back at your older posts, and all of them involve a lot of oils, and many additives.

IrishLass · Apr 28, 2016

If it were me making the soap, the only changes I'd make would be to nix the jojoba and add the extra 5% to the tallow, and then I'd decrease the superfat to compensate for the added fat from the milks.

As a matter of course, whenever I use milk in place of all of my water amount I always reduce my superfat. For me, a 3% S/F works out fine, but that's based on the fat content in the particular milk that I use. Your fat content might be different.

IrishLass

jennyannlowe · Apr 28, 2016

I have a tendency to go overboard. This is more or less what I've been trying lately:

25% olive
25% coconut
20% lard or tallow or palm
15% shea or cocoa butter
10% almond or avocado
5% castor

I think I am going to try adding additives to my oils instead of trace. That way I can dump in my lye water, blend, and pour.

The additives Ive been using recently is:
1 TBSP PPO sugar for lather - dissolved in water before lye
2% of oils - citric acid - i have hard water - dissolved in water before lye
3% Sodium lactate - added to cooled lye water
1 tsp Salt PPO - I just started adding this- dissolved in water before lye.
tiny pea size pinch Tussah silk - added to lye water when hot

tbsp titanium dioxide - sometimes, depending. mixed with little water, added at trace.
Fragrance oil - added at trace

I was using 1 tbsp kaolin clay or bentonite clay PPO. I've stopped for the time being until I've gotten my recipes straight.
oatmeal powder - added at trace
Honey - in oatmeal recipes. Added at trace. Tbsp PPO

-------------------

SO.....this is my new plan:

Pick between sodium lactate and salt. Not going to use both.
Except for sugar/salt, add my additives to oils.
not over stick blend.
not using any clay or anything until I am comfortable with my recipes.
decrease SF in milk batches

Navaria · Apr 28, 2016

That's a whole lot of additives. Have you made any batches without any additives at all? You may find your soap is lovely without all that extra stuff and you're just wasting money and giving yourself pains by adding all of that.

Seawolfe · Apr 28, 2016

You might have stated and I missed it - how long are you curing your bars?

And are you calculating the extra lye needed to compensate for the citric acid? Otherwise your SF will be even higher.

penelopejane · Apr 28, 2016

jennyannlowe said:
I think I am going to try adding additives to my oils instead of trace. That

SO.....this is my new plan:

Pick between sodium lactate and salt. Not going to use both.
Except for sugar/salt, add my additives to oils.
not over stick blend.
not using any clay or anything until I am comfortable with my recipes.
decrease SF in milk batches

Good plan. Try separating 50g water from your water amount. Into this mix add your sugar (start at 1 tsp ppo) CA, warmed honey, FO and TD (start at 1 tsp ppo - I use 1/2 that and it works but I guess you want really really white even so I think 1 tbsp ppo is a little high, for me anyway but I am frugal!). Add all this to your melted oils and SB before you add lye water. Then Add lye water and SB only until emulsion (probably about 5 second with the recipe you listed above).

Mixing your batter until it is thick does not make the soap hard. The ingredients, gelling your soap and time makes it hard.

jennyannlowe · Apr 28, 2016

Thank you!

I don't use 1 tbsp PPO. I usually make batches that are about 1000 grams. To that I usually put about 1 tbsp, total. I eyeball it.

I do usually mix TD with water first and mix with mini mixer. My mini mixer broke last weekend! I ordered another, can't believe how much I depend on the mini mixer!

Oh question, you mention adding the citric acid to the oils? It doesn't have to be mixed with lye water first to become sodium citrate? It works fine adding to oils then adding lye water? If so I'm doing that instead! I will add only the tussah silk to lye water and put everything else together in little water and add to oils. Much easier!
I cure at 4-6 weeks. Mostly at 6. But I am gonna make sure to wait longer if I must.

I do compensate for the citric acid. If you see the pic above, there a comment at the bottom... I add 6.24g of extra lye for every 10g of citric acid. I usually use 2% citric acid. I
So far I haven't purchased anything in bulk. I have only made about 20 small batches. I think I will try a batch with only sugar, salt and tussah silk. These three items are very cheap. I got a bunch of tussah silk for like $3. I'll probably never use it all.

How many here use tussah silk?

snappyllama · Apr 28, 2016

I think a good many of us use it. It's cheap! It's fun to watch dissolving (plus I like the faint protein scent it makes in my pot (weird I know)! It seems to add a little bit of silkiness and bubble strengthening - at least I've noticed that difference since I started using it!

It's luxurious in concept... I guess folks might say label appeal, but I just give things away. I'm the only one that reads my labels. Well, I take that back. I made lotion bars and included a line about "It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again". It took a friend two moths to notice it. But I knew it was there.

jennyannlowe · Apr 28, 2016

I have struggled to figure out the right amount of tussah silk to add. I might not be using enough. I was afraid of using too much. Ive heard that a pea sized pinch is good....is that per batch or PPO?

any idea how to judge?

My goats milk soap is too soft

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