How to get super clean layers

not_ally · Apr 24, 2015

So, I was looking at a post on newbie's "browsing soap pics" thread. http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=51057&page=53

How do people get these extra straight, crisp layers? I have a really hard time doing layers w/o some of the color breaking through through to the layer below, at least if I am doing all of them at the same time, regardless of whether I give the next layer some time to set up, etc. I usually wait a bit, sometimes whisk/SB, pour over a spoon, etc., but I can't even imagine getting the results here.

I have seen lots of posts about layering generally, and probably even some about layering with hours in between - can't find them now, of course. I know I have seen references to pouring, letting them sit, sometimes sticking the lower batch into the fridge for a bit, making a new batch and then pouring that as the next layer, with hints about how to stop separation (scoring the surface of the layer underneath, for example.) Is anyone generous to offer a short tute on how to come as close as possible to that straight line layer, without any bleed-through?

shunt2011 · Apr 24, 2015

I have only done a handful of layered soap but I find spraying the top of the each layer after pouring seems to help set it up a bit and then I gently pour over a spatula or spoon for the next layer. It's worked well for me. Also, be sure that the batter isn't to thin.

lizard1232 · Apr 24, 2015

This may or may not help... [ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5dU3BhHwDkU[/ame] If nothing else, it's interesting to watch.

not_ally · Apr 24, 2015

Shunt, what do you spray with, alcohol? I was concerned that would make it wetter/create more of a barrier between layers and make it more likely to separate.

Lizard, thanks for the link. Arianne's videos are great, but sometimes counterintuitive to newbies. I thought it was interesting that she essentially prepared separate little batchlets (lye, oils colorants and FOs for each one), one after the other, but poured always at a thin trace to have as level a top as possible. I always thought it was better to have a thicker trace so that the levels would hold. I wonder how much time elapses between each pour, and if that is the reason the layers are not breaking through.

Thanks to you both.

MorpheusPA · Apr 24, 2015

not_ally said:
Shunt, what do you spray with, alcohol? I was concerned that would make it wetter/create more of a barrier between layers and make it more likely to separate.

I'm not Shunt, but I did stay at a Red Roof Inn a couple times.

I use 91% isopropyl alcohol from my local drug store. Not only don't the layers separate, they bond beautifully when using it.

And it boils off easily during cure, so no scent remains.

I just did a Lemon Meringue Soap, with a yellow base and about a fifth of white layer up top. The bond is perfect, the line nearly perfectly straight (the error is my fault), and it's a nice soap. Now if I hadn't used yellow oxide for the base and gone with Yellow #5, it'd be perfect. It's in my notes.

not_ally · Apr 24, 2015

Silly Morpheus

At what trace did you pour, and how much time between them? That seems to be the key, still cannot figure that out. Also, why did the colorants make a difference, did the #5 bleed?

Obsidian · Apr 24, 2015

If you want really clean layers, making little batches like Arianne is the best way to go. depending on your recipe, you shouldn't have to wait too long, maybe 15 minutes or so between each layer so the bottom one sets up enough that the new layer won't break through.

You can make on big batch and separate but when done like that, you have to pour thicker so the layers won't break though and you won't get the even, clean lines.

MorpheusPA · Apr 24, 2015

not_ally said:
Silly Morpheus

At what trace did you pour, and how much time between them? That seems to be the key, still cannot figure that out. Also, why did the colorants make a difference, did the #5 bleed?

I poured at medium trace with no time between them--breaking the fall of the white meringue by pouring it over the back of a spoon.

The yellow oxide simply didn't produce a lemon yellow, it's more of a dun, sandy color. If asked, I'll tell people I Meant To Do That and wanted to use a more natural oxide over the Going To Kill You FD&C colorants.

Yellow #5 would bleed--I use Yellow #5 Lake. It still bleeds a bit, but far less and far slower.

TVivian · Apr 25, 2015

I mix my whole batch of soap to emulsification, I separate the mix by weight into containers. Then one at a time I color, scent,mix and pour. I let each layer set up before mixing and pouring the next (over a spatula so the last layer doesn't break) I find that soap mixed lightly and left unscented will stay fluid for quite a long time.

Here's one I made for Valentine's Day this year.

ImageUploadedBySoap Making1429942816.446452.jpg

Sonya-m · Apr 25, 2015

TVivian said:
I mix my whole batch of soap to emulsification, I separate the mix by weight into containers. Then one at a time I color, scent,mix and pour. I let each layer set up before mixing and pouring the next (over a spatula so the last layer doesn't break) I find that soap mixed lightly and left unscented will stay fluid for quite a long time.

Here's one I made for Valentine's Day this year.

View attachment 13827

Omg that is absolutely gorgeous!! Love it, love it, love it!!

I've only done one layered soap and because it was 1/4 one colour then the rest another I had 2 lots of lye water and oils - started as one then just weighed out the 1/4 that I needed for my bottom layer. Mixed that 1/4, poured, left to firm up then when I added the next colour I poured over the back of my spatula - I had a mica pencil line too that I didn't want to smudge

Rowan · Apr 25, 2015

Wow TVivian that soap is gorgeous. Lovely colours and really straight lines.

shunt2011 · Apr 25, 2015

I pour at medium trace then spray with 91% alcohol. It evaporates pretty quickly but sets the top enough to pour the next layer by the time I add fragrance and color.

newbie · Apr 25, 2015

Another option, in addition to the others posted, is to emulsify and separate with no FO as TViv mentioned but also put your mold in the freezer for some time before you start. Pour your layer and then carefully put back in the freezer while you prepare you next layer. You have to figure out the timing, but freezing the soap or at least chilling it well in the freezer between layers can help it stay firm while you pour the next layer so there is no breakthrough. Not useful of course if you make large batches and have a huge mold.

not_ally · Apr 25, 2015

Lots of good advice here. I am going to try a couple of ways with a combo of these hints. Especially curious about the refrigeration, I have seen that mentioned in other posts but was not sure how to do it w/o getting the soap too cold, so thanks, Newbie. Viv, that is one gorgeous soap. Thanks to all of you generous souls for your advice, I am going to crack this thing and then (probably in several months

) post a picture that makes it look easy like the rest of you do!

newbie · Apr 25, 2015

I don't think you have to worry about the soap in the mold getting too cold, or did you mean the batter that is waiting? After you are done pouring, you can let it come to room temp and then gel if you like to gel or let it sit at RT if you prefer not to. If you get false trace in the batter waiting, if you don't do batchlets, then you'd have to stir or SB it up, but it think it would work fine.

not_ally · Apr 25, 2015

Newbie, I was afraid that if I put the the soap (in the mold) in the freezer between layers some of the water from the batter would chrystalize on top and then the following layers would not adhere well, or that the differences in the temps b/w layers would be problematic. But it seems from your posts that if you are careful w/timing that should be fine. I was probably overthinking things.

The good thing is that I really just want to do a couple/three layers (like the one on your thread with the stamp), so fails will be less painful than a rainbow one like Vivs, or at least involve less lost time!

kumudini · Apr 25, 2015

I like this thread. So many great suggestions. Iam going to refer back to this thread when I get my colors in my next order of soapy things. Thank you n_a for starting this thread. Arianne sure makes it look super easy and I loved tviv's sharp lines and beautiful colors.

not_ally · Apr 25, 2015

Also, I think Morpheus' "I Meant To Do That" should be a soapie acronym. I think a lot of us will know exactly what IMTDT means

newbie · Apr 25, 2015

I suppose it's possible that if you freeze it very hard and there is time for crystals to form, there could be a potential problem but you would be putting the soap in for 10-15 minutes while you make your next layer. It's not enough time to freeze solid. I've frozen soaps hard- HARD- before layering on without a problem though. And certainly there are people who put their soap in the freezer for 12-24 to prevent gel and don't report problems. I think the freezer can be a tool to use in layering, at least one for you to choose from.

MorpheusPA · Apr 25, 2015

not_ally said:
Also, I think Morpheus' "I Meant To Do That" should be a soapie acronym. I think a lot of us will know exactly what IMTDT means

It's a sentence I use very, very often. Polka dots? IMTDT. Muddy swirls? IMTDT.

Forgot to add the fragrance oil? IMTDT. Hey, some people really like an unscented soap! So there!

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