How do sellers use so much Coconut Oil?

ambers_artworld · May 20, 2014

Hi all, just a random question that I haven't been able to find the answer to by searching the forum, maybe I just missed it...

When looking at the ingredient list of lots of different handmade soaps I come across, especially by some of the larger companies in the handmade soap business, I find that tons of them have coconut oil as their #1 ingredient, usually along with Palm as #2...sometimes they don't even have a moisturizing oil until way down on the list, if at all.

I've purchased some of these soaps and actually some of them are quite awesome...huge lather, and to my surprise, long lasting and not drying. So, how are they doing it? I thought that using Coconut oil in huge enough quantities will either 1.) dry skin, or 2.) used with a high SF will not dry skin but make a quickly dissolving bar. So...how are they doing it??

Maybe I'm snooping where I don't belong, but my curiosity is killing me!!!

P.S. I know how to spot melt and pour and i'm not talking about those soaps...these are regular cold process bars.

dalewaite48 · May 20, 2014

I make a master batch for my base oils and this is my ingredients,

6 Lbs 3 ounces of Sunflower Oil, or Vegetable Oil
3 lbs. 2 ounces of Coconut Oil
3 lbs. 2 ounces of Olive Oil
1 lbs. 4 ounces of Shea Butter
As you can see Coconut and Olive oil are my second largest amounts in my soap and it makes a nice bar of soap.

seven · May 20, 2014

i know what you mean, seen it quite a lot too. a lot of the times the main oils are: coco, palm, and/or pko... and that's it. no soft oils, no nothing. in fact, i am holding a bar that i bought at a pharmacy (a gm soap with oatmeal, costs AUD 3), and it says there in the ingredients list: glycerine. there is also another bar (also a gm soap) which has a similar ingredients, and it also has glycerine added to it.

if only they told us how much SF they were using, lol...

IrishLass · May 20, 2014

The order of ingredients on a soap label can sometimes trick us into thinking that there must be more of such and such an oil because it happens to be listed first, but in theory, it could very well be that there are actually equal amounts of each oil in the soap, which would then leave the soap-maker free to be able list them in whatever way they preferred. I say that because one of my own recipes has equal amounts of 4 oils/fats and I just list them on the label in whatever order I feel like.

IrishLass

ambers_artworld · May 20, 2014

Exactly, Seven! I've seen that a lot...coconut, palm and PK and nothing else. I just think to myself, how does this not melt right down the drain in a few washes with how much superfat that must contain? Must be something like what you said, IrishLass...that makes a lot of sense.

mintle · May 20, 2014

There are some quite famous and very talented bloggers from German/Austrian-speaking countries (miniseifen, punkthandwerk, dandelion) who publish exact amount of oils used in their recipes and very often the amount of coconut exceeds 25% which is like an absolute maximum for me (I use up to 20% usually). But in such cases they also superfat more than 5-7% which is my standard superfat level. I think it has something to do with, as I call it in my head, a 'German school of soaping', where the whole soapmaking community inspires&influences itself in a certain way. They also use das Schmalz (lard) quite freely which I doubt could be popular in terms of sales in my country.

The Efficacious Gentleman · May 21, 2014

Mintle, you missed one out

I also wonder how the soaps are even usable, but then as has been said, if you have 4 oils and make the CO 26% (high than a lot of use, but not unworldly) and all others an equal share of the rest then it will be the first one on the list.

lsg · May 21, 2014

I use about 30% coconut oil and my family and friends do not have a problem with the soap being drying. I realize that some people find that amount drying; but SoapQueen lists a tried and true recipe with 32% coconut, 32% palm, 32% olive and 4% Castor. I also use palm oil, which has a high conditioning value on SoapCalc. Coconut and palm, used along with olive or rice bran oil and a little Castor oil makes a great bar.

Seawolfe · May 21, 2014

Hubby adores his 30% Coconut bastille, and since Ive convinced him to let me up the superfat, I'm convinced as well. So it would be easy to list coconut first if the other 70% was 3 other oils.

The other possibility is maybe they are adding salt in the water?

DeeAnna · May 21, 2014

If they are using salt AND if they're listing ingredients properly, then you should see sodium chloride in the ingredients list. I can't say I've seen salt listed as a soap ingredient in the handcrafted soaps I've looked at, but maybe it's more common than I realize. I realize there's the salt/spa bars that have granular salt mixed into the batter and a solsiefe/salt-water soap that has salt dissolved in the water, but the fact that both are considered specialty recipes in the forums I read makes me think they are uncommon practices.

ambers_artworld · May 21, 2014

Seawolfe, what do you mean by it would make a difference if they were adding salt? Are you referring to that being the reason the bars are lasting longer?

Seawolfe · May 21, 2014

ambers_artworld said:
Seawolfe, what do you mean by it would make a difference if they were adding salt? Are you referring to that being the reason the bars are lasting longer?

No, I meant that bars with salt or salt water in them want quite a bit of coconut oil - as coconut oil is the only oil that will make a soap in salt water. But as DeAnna said, bars with salt in them are considered specialty and would probably mention it somewhere on the soap.

Jerry S · May 21, 2014

I have not used salt in any of my soap making, probably because I have not taken the time to explore what proportions to use or test the differences between salt bars and those made without it. I have noticed though that many can't say enough about how wonderful salt bars are. Seawolf, are you saying then that coconut oil is the only oil that will make a soap in salt water and that's the only oil one uses in making salt bars?

seven · May 21, 2014

not Seawolfe here, but, correct.. coconut oil is the only oil that will lather in salt water. it does not have to be the only oil when making salt bars, but it is the majority. i mixed mine 80-20. superfatted b/w 15-20%.

Seawolfe · May 21, 2014

Yeah like Seven said ^^^

Edit to add: I just ran across this recipe that is 100% coconut and 20% superfat. I am intrigued.

seven · May 21, 2014

^^^
i've done a 100% co batch. swap some of the water with cm. marvelous, bubbly, creamy soap

just be careful about overheating. mine got so hot there were cracks, and even a stearic bubble (looks like a giant acne bubble, but it's hard, it cannot be poked).
i also left mine a lil too long to cut it crumbled a bit. my wire cutter cannot take it, gotta use a knife.
an individual silicone mold might be a simpler option for next time.

the soap is very white, and kinda opaque looking.

ambers_artworld · May 21, 2014

Awww yes that's right...salt bars need the coconut to lather. I've heard that but forgot, since I don't make salt bars. One of the sellers did list sea salt on their ingredients, the others didn't. I just found it interesting. One that I was interested in was Dr. Bronner's Peppermint Soap, which lathers up huge and is very long lasting, yet not drying...it has coconut right at the top of the list. It also has sea salt on there.

Hazel · May 21, 2014

ambers_artworld -

I was just at the store earlier and was browsing Dr. Bronner's bars. I wondered about how drying they would be since since coconut and palm are the first two ingredients.
Sea salt is listed but after peppermint oil so I don't think there'd be much in it. Also, the olive oil, hemp oil and jojoba oil are listed after Mentha Arvensis. This I really wondered about since I couldn't imagine using it over 2%. But maybe it's all right to use at a higher percentage. I've only used peppermint and spearmint.

Organic Coconut Oil*, Organic Palm Oil*, Sodium Hydroxide**, Water, Mentha Arvensis*, Organic Olive Oil*, Organic fair Deal Hemp Oil, Organic Jojoba Oil, Organic Peppermint Oil*, Sea Salt, Citric Acid, Tocopherol

I also wonder how they get away with calling their soap "Pure Castile". Anyone know?

eta: Whoops! I just saw your reply.

Maybe the soap has a high superfat?

ambers_artworld · May 21, 2014

Hazel said:
ambers_artworld -

I was just at the store earlier and was browsing Dr. Bronner's bars. I wondered about how drying they would be since since coconut and palm are the first two ingredients.
Sea salt is listed but after peppermint oil so I don't think there'd be much in it. Also, the olive oil, hemp oil and jojoba oil are listed after Mentha Arvensis. This I really wondered about since I couldn't imagine using it over 2%. But maybe it's all right to use at a higher percentage. I've only used peppermint and spearmint.
I also wonder how they get away with calling their soap "Pure Castile". Anyone know?

eta: Whoops! I just saw your reply.

Maybe the soap has a high superfat?

My questions exactly, Hazel! Not sure why they call it Castille, except maybe obvious marketing purposes. I guess I'm confused because I thought if one were to include salt in a bar, they would use it in much larger quantities that what the Dr. Bronner bar seems to indicate by being close to last on the list...what benefit would a very small amount add? I bought the bar out of sheer curiosity and actually liked it a lot more than I thought I would...I just wonder how it was so lathery, while managing to be both long lasting and not over drying. A high enough SF, seems to me, should make it very soft and dissolve quickly, but it didn't.

Hazel · May 21, 2014

I've found 1 tsp salt ppo helps a batch to harden more quickly. I don't know if contributes to hardness long term. I'll have to dig out a bar and test it.

I think it's time to experiment. I have all the ingredients (except the mint) so I'm going to play on soapcalc. I also have very little hemp left. It might be interesting to make batch. I can always rebatch if it doesn't turn out.

How do sellers use so much Coconut Oil?

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